Justified self-defense? Or not?

[Hornett]

If you carry a gun all the time anyway, what is the issue?

 

[CitiusFortius]

That being the circumstance, would the use of my gun been justified as defense of a forcible felony of aggravated battery on my friends/co-workers? Or would knowingly bringing a gun to a likely fight be considered something else? One person I talked to suggested that may go so far as pre-meditated.

Thoughts?

I don't know about the legal ramifications, but I wouldn't do it from an ethical point a view. If the person REALLY, and HONESTLY feared for her life she should have stayed at a friend's house or rented a hotel room for the night.

Exhaust all other possible options before putting yourself in harms way. Just my take.

 

[actaeon277]

I don't know about the legal ramifications, but I wouldn't do it from an ethical point a view. If the person REALLY, and HONESTLY feared for her life she should have stayed at a friend's house or rented a hotel room for the night.

Exhaust all other possible options before putting yourself in harms way. Just my take.

I understand what you're saying, avoid conflict.
But have someone keep me from my house???
And for how long? This situation could last quite a while.

 

[Kedric]

There is no way that some punk scumbag should be allowed to keep anyone from being able to go home. The fact that anyone believes that it is a good idea to allow that sort of thing astounds me. It's the same as certain individuals who tell a woman who is getting raped to try and vomit on the assailant in hopes that it will encourage them to stop.

Seriously, while perhaps not the best set of choices, I do not see how it could be ruled anything but self defense. If you did not go to the aggressor's property and start a fight, if you were not wildly waving your gun around at first....

Once they refused verbal commands to leave the property, once they initiated the assault, then any and all responses are acceptable to stop the threat, IMHO. Unless after they were down you went up to each one and executed them with a bullet to the back of the head. That would be a bit much.

I will not allow the dregs of society to dictate terms or willfully harm, harass, or terrorize me or mine. The kind of thinking that claims they are only misunderstood or that they somehow have more rights than the victims needs to stop.

They should have both had their LTCH and been carrying. She should have had 911 on speed dial, perhaps insisted that a cruiser meet them there (if they would have actually done so is debatable), but there is no reason to allow hoodlums and trash to scare honest people off their property or prevent them from living their lives in a safe and peaceable manner.

I am sorry that they were injured, but I hope they take this as a wake up call, get their license, get some training, and do not allow it to happen again.

 

[SERparacord]

This reminds me of the Alphabet Murders.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yeah, it's perfectly legal to threaten to kill someone because, after all, it is freedom of speech.

You're not really a LEO, are you?

I'm hosting a Bill of Rights dinner this Saturday. (I'm sure you get the connection). I'm going to bring up your position as representing all law enforcement. You don't mind, do you?

Well, let's actually keep with what was said. You substituted "kill" for "beat up" from his post. That said, you are implying that he's wrong, that it is illegal to simply threaten someone. Care to find an IC code that backs your position?

Now, you'll likely say "Intimidation", let's actually read the code. Notice that a threat, by itself, doesn't meet the criteria for Intimidation? It has to be to make someone do something against their will, in retaliation for a prior lawful act, or to cause an evacuation of a building or vehicle?

Indiana Code 35-45-2

If I say "I'm going to break your leg" and then walk off without further communication, I've committed no crime.

If I say "I'm going to break your leg if you don't move your car out of that parking spot", that's a criminal act, as I'm trying to make you do something against your will.

If I say "I'm going to break your leg because you called 911 about me threatening to break your leg over the parking spot thing" that's also illegal, retaliation for a prior lawful act.

If I say "I'm going to break your leg because you burglarized my house", that's legal. The threat is there, but the prior act that I'm threatening retaliation for isn't a lawful act.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I was presented with a situation earlier this week and was thinking of how the situation could've been handled differently.... I would love to hear from LEO's and/or lawyers.

LEO here. My advise is read and fully understand the IC codes related to self-defense. Trying to present a scenario in such a concise format as an internet forum post inevitably leaves out details that may dictate the correct response. "What ifs" are infinite, there's so many variables out there and no paragraph or two can really sum up a situation such as that. As such, I will not comment on the legality of a specific situation presented in that format, as I have no confidence I really understand the situation well enough to do so.

Indiana Code 35-41-3

 

[bloodandgutsmurphy]

I just would have showed them I was carrying a pistol and I bet that would have scared them away. But if you were forced to use your firearm I believe that would be considered self defense.

 

[Vince49]

In the Gravest Extreme

This book by Massad Ayoob has some good information about just such a question and many others regarding the carry and use of firearms by civilians. I highly recommend reading it. It is also available on e-bay and at the Public Library.

Link:[ame=http://www.amazon.com/In-Gravest-Extreme-Personal-Protection/dp/0936279001]In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection: Massad F. Ayoob: 9780936279008: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

 

[CathyInBlue]

If you are going FROM your home TO another place, even one where you have every right to be, and you pack heat specificly because you ANTICIPATE confrontation there, that's one thing. Basicly, it's premeditation. Change any of those details and it's completely different. If you pack heat on general principles, it's not premeditation. You would have been armed normally anyway, whether anticipating confrontation or not, getting into a confrontation or not. Likewise, even if arming yourself specificly in anticipation of a confrontation with people not residents of your private home in order to return to your private home is not premeditation. We're talking about your right to go home, your right to be at home, without being subject to violence. Some ne'er-do-well wants to stake out your house and attack your armed self from ambush when you get their, that's the definition of play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[Denny347]

If I see someone getting beaten with a baseball bat, they are likely getting the business end of my pistol. THAT is SBI and ANY ONE of those blows have the potential to kill or permanently maim a person. If it was illegal to say/text/write "I'm going to beat you up." Half of our population would be in jail. I hate bullies and deal with those types every day...baby daddies, ex-boyfriends, ex-husbands, or current. I'll lock them up in a blink of an eye...if there is PC. Now if she had a protective order, the text itself would have been enough to outright him for invasion of privacy.

 

[RolanNRA]

If they decided to go to the house knowing that a threat has been made.The person carrying the gun would be held accountable after all you are not intentionally to get into a situtation that would cause you to use your firearm.I believe you have an obligation to retreat unless on your own property at night of course I am not an attorney but thats what my take is on that situation

 

[trinitrotoluene85]

Well, M has been home taking care of L all week and has not been in to work. I anticipate her being back at work next week, and I'll give you guys an update, and more information as I get it. So far we seem to be roughly 50/50, perhaps more leaning towards it being self defense.

 

[jkaetz]

The bottom line here is that a self defense situation can and will always be argued. Best bet is to go about your business, do what you have to to protect you and your own, keep your bacon hole shut and let your lawyer take care of things for you.

 

[ShootinIron]

Bottom Line...

That is the best advice yet...

 

[Liberty1911]

M is an idiot.