Knife training

[Revopop]

Yeah, I'm feeling that my best bet is probably gonna be Krav Maga. I feel like I'm gonna have a pretty solid skill set for all kinds of fighting if I'm gonna do that.

Thanks again for the links, I've heard back from Morris Dynamics. The price is pretty reasonable per session, but you gotta buy 50 (50!) sessions at a time. Oh well.

 

[Tinman]

Everyone seems fixated on knife training or knife fighting. Based on my experience and research the most the most important skill set, yet often the most ignored is the ability to defend against a knife you never see with open hand combatives. Most stuff spends way more time on using your own knife, or even knife on knife. Here are some articles dealing with the subject at hand-

Dealing with the edged weapon threat

The nuts and bolts of interpersonal combat

- George

George,

Good article, but the one thing I noticed missing in the phases of interpersonal combat were the pre-fight aspects.

I do agree that most people would be better off foregoing the "knife fight" training in favor of a good open hand system capable of handling armed and unarmed conflict. However, setting up a solid pre-fight plan, and understanding the needs of positional dominance prior to the start of festivities should probably be even higher on that list than the open hand skills.

My personal experience, as I'm sure your's is as well, I use my pre-fight procedures hundreds of times more frequently than all my fight skill sets combined. It's kind of like the need for medical skills verse gunfighting skills, the average citizen will likely need medical / first aid skills much more frequently, but those classes just aren't as cool and high speed so they mostly go unnoticed.

One of the biggest problems I have with "traditional martial arts" is this fallacy of equal initiative, and equal armament (credit to Southnarc for bringing this one to my attention many years ago). I have yet to see any street fights where two guys look at each other, draw their knives get into their fighting stances, and proceed to fight. Yet that's how most schools teach this stuff. That's why I say there are good things that are advantageous to learning TMA, but you need to augment that with street based classes that will show you how to apply what you know to the context of a real world fight, and add additional skills to your kit.

I just want to clarify some terminology, to me, "knife defense" is a one or two attack defense, if you stay defensive for much longer than that, you are going to get hurt.


Here's my phases of interpersonal conflict (to borrow George's terminology):

• Pre-fight tactics (includes both awareness and initial contact management)
• Survive the initial attack
• Regain the initiative
• Gain positional dominance
• Stabilize the position
• Access a tool
• Implement the tool
• Close out the fight
• Look for someone else to fight
• Asses environment
• Asses self
• Asses companions

Obviously if I'm doing my part correctly, it looks more like this:

• Pre-fight tactics (includes both awareness and initial contact management)
• Maintain positional dominance
• Read pre-attack cues from threat
• Pre-emptive strike
• Move to an even more dominant position
• Stabilize the position
• Access a tool
• Implement the tool
• Close out the fight
• Look for someone else to fight
• Asses environment
• Asses self
• Asses companions

If I had to lay out a blue print for people to train by, I think this is the way I would recommend someone approach it:

1. Pre-fight skills (awareness, managing unknown contacts, verbal interaction, and verbal deescalation)
2. Basic medical skills (good first aid and CPR)
3. Standing open hand skills (surviving the initial attack, basic footwork, positional dominance and a basic set of high and low line strikes)
4. Clinch based skills (similar to above)
5. Survival groundwork (you don't need a full BJJ skill set, it has been recommended by others that about 6 months worth of good blue belt level work in a dojo and you should have all the functional skills to survive a ground fight, gain dominant position, and get up)
6. Pistol skill sets (contact distance to about 10 or 15 yards)
7. Knife skill sets
8. In fight weapons access (it really is a skill set unto itself, try it sometime against a resistive opponent)
9. Advanced trauma medical (you can inflict the damage, but can you fix it)
10. More advanced skills (vehicle movements, structure work, wilderness survival, etc)
11. Long gun work (carbine or shotgun)

Unfortunately, most people (myself included) don't put that much time into identifying training needs by probability of use, we pick our training needs by the cool factor of the course description. I wish I could go back to when I began this journey and do a better job of mapping out a plan, I think I would have made much more progress in a lot less time.

Now I know I left a lot of detail out there, and each of those items could easily turn into a complete study and dissertation, but thats the short version anyway.


Hope it wasn't too disjointed......

Tinman....

 

[shootersix]

Yeah, I'm feeling that my best bet is probably gonna be Krav Maga. I feel like I'm gonna have a pretty solid skill set for all kinds of fighting if I'm gonna do that.

Thanks again for the links, I've heard back from Morris Dynamics. The price is pretty reasonable per session, but you gotta buy 50 (50!) sessions at a time. Oh well.

ive been taking krav maga for 3 years now at morris martial arts(my avatar on ingo is the krav maga logo)

krav is a 100% self defense program, no forms, no bowing, and no bs, its hardcore self defense, you will never see a krav maga tournament, no mma fighter will ever use krav in the octagon.

pretty much the first thing i learned to do was kick a man in the balls, the right way!

im in level two, and thats where it gets good(we learn weapon defense in level two) level one is pretty much "unarmed" defenses, BUT what you learn in level one applies to level two, especially "360 defense"(in regards to knife defense)

i find it easier to talk about krav than to type about it but if you emailed morris about it, im sure mike(hes a great guy btw) has offered for you to take a few classes for free

for whats its worth both mike and gary are gun guys

we've had all kinds of people in class from high school kids to 60 year olds and everybody in between ,right now we have a posey co sheriff who is teaching krav to the rest of the department, and also a indy police officer who took classes, she is the smallest police office ive ever seen, and on her first day of hand to hand training at the isp academy she whopped the instructors ass (or so i hear)

stop by and watch a class and take the week of free ones and see what you think

 

[Cru]

Where is morris martial arts?

 

[shootersix]

Where is morris martial arts?

evansville off of green river road
Google Maps

tell em russell sent you

 

[Cru]

I would if E-ville wasn't so far away.

 

[lovemachine]

I would if E-ville wasn't so far away.

There's one on 96th street.

 

[shootersix]

There's one on 96th street.

as of the last time i looked on the krav maga worldwide website (Krav Maga Association Of America Inc., Israeli Self Defense Krav Maga Worldwide) theres only two places in indiana that teach krav, one in eville and one in indy, the next closest is in louisville or st louis


go ahead and take a intro class what do you have to loose?

 

[jbombelli]

You certainly make good points. I'm down here in Evansville, otherwise I'd definitely look into the IU programs. I used to know a guy who practiced Aikido for years, & he always said one of the best things about the Japanese martial arts was that they didn't rely so much on physical fitness. More about leverage, balance, & redirecting your opponent's momentum. Sounds a little more my speed than karate-chopping boards in half.

LOL.

You do know that Karate is Japanese, right?

 

[Archaic_Entity]

LOL.

You do know that Karate is Japanese, right?

I'm gonna split some hairs here and say that karate is actually Okinawan and developed from kenpo which is a Chinese striking martial art.

Aikido is from mainland Japan.

 

[lovemachine]

as of the last time i looked on the krav maga worldwide website (Krav Maga Association Of America Inc., Israeli Self Defense Krav Maga Worldwide) theres only two places in indiana that teach krav, one in eville and one in indy, the next closest is in louisville or st louis


go ahead and take a intro class what do you have to loose?

Home Page

That's the one on 96th street.

 

[jbombelli]

I'm gonna split some hairs here and say that karate is actually Okinawan and developed from kenpo which is a Chinese striking martial art.

Aikido is from mainland Japan.

Is Okinawa not part of Japan?

 

[shootersix]

sam sade wow wished i lived in indy! he was the fight choreographer for the last season of the unit

i would love to take that seminar

 

[Archaic_Entity]

Is Okinawa not part of Japan?

In name, yes. Culturally it's very different. Also... karate became a part of Okinawan tradition way before they were annexed into Japan.

 

[Cru]

Home Page

That's the one on 96th street.

I'm going to check it out!

 

[Revopop]

as of the last time i looked on the krav maga worldwide website (Krav Maga Association Of America Inc., Israeli Self Defense Krav Maga Worldwide) theres only two places in indiana that teach krav, one in eville and one in indy, the next closest is in louisville or st louis


go ahead and take a intro class what do you have to loose?

Louisville's really close to Noblesville. You could check out that place.

 

[Revopop]

ive been taking krav maga for 3 years now at morris martial arts(my avatar on ingo is the krav maga logo)

krav is a 100% self defense program, no forms, no bowing, and no bs, its hardcore self defense, you will never see a krav maga tournament, no mma fighter will ever use krav in the octagon.

pretty much the first thing i learned to do was kick a man in the balls, the right way!

im in level two, and thats where it gets good(we learn weapon defense in level two) level one is pretty much "unarmed" defenses, BUT what you learn in level one applies to level two, especially "360 defense"(in regards to knife defense)

i find it easier to talk about krav than to type about it but if you emailed morris about it, im sure mike(hes a great guy btw) has offered for you to take a few classes for free

for whats its worth both mike and gary are gun guys

we've had all kinds of people in class from high school kids to 60 year olds and everybody in between ,right now we have a posey co sheriff who is teaching krav to the rest of the department, and also a indy police officer who took classes, she is the smallest police office ive ever seen, and on her first day of hand to hand training at the isp academy she whopped the instructors ass (or so i hear)

stop by and watch a class and take the week of free ones and see what you think

Yeah, Mark got back to me quick. I'm very interested. My girlfriend is very interested as well, which is a pleasant surprise. This is the first time she's ever had any interest in learning to defend herself. She doesn't even like to carry pepper spray, much less a gun, because she thinks she couldn't bring herself to use it on someone, however she's genuinely excited to learn the proper way to kick a guy in the balls.

 

[shootersix]

Yeah, Mark got back to me quick. I'm very interested. My girlfriend is very interested as well, which is a pleasant surprise. This is the first time she's ever had any interest in learning to defend herself. She doesn't even like to carry pepper spray, much less a gun, because she thinks she couldn't bring herself to use it on someone, however she's genuinely excited to learn the proper way to kick a guy in the balls.

be careful you'd be surprised how much a woman can change when she "gets her krav face on!" the smile go's away and the "scowl comes out"

but seriously you'll get in shape AND learn to defend your self

hope to see you in class