Know where your pointing your firearm!

[Dogman]

This is not to be taken as bashing cops, so if that is what you want to do move on please.
The picture shows a perfect example as to why you ALWAYS need to know what your aiming at no matter what! Stress situation, finger on trigger.

 

[MilitaryArms]

You're right, it has nothing to do with the uniform, it has everything to do with basic weapons safety.

Here's an old one but this illustrates even more vividly why you don't put your finger on the trigger. What I find amazing is that this lady is armed with a Beretta and she still manages to have an AD... which tells me she had the weapon cocked, perhaps even in her holster! If you watch closely, it appears as though the nose of the weapon dives just before the gun fires, like she realized it was cocked and was attempting to use the decocker before reholstering but pulled the trigger instead.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDfNV9bJoSg"]YouTube - Dumb cop almost shoots partner[/ame]

 

[JetGirl]

What I find amazing is that this lady is armed with a Beretta and she still manages to have an ND...

Fixed it for ya.

 

[MilitaryArms]

Fixed it for ya.

Thanks Annie, but I'll call them AD's from now, and until I die. We called them AD's in the Corps and I see no reason to teach this old dog new tricks. I know some folks love minutia... so I let them change things up every few years with the latest and greatest in acronyms.

Meanwhile, I'll always remember AD Dunwoody, a Sgt. at my base that popped a round off through his truck door while on duty with a 1911. The nickname cracked me up then, and still does to this day.

 

[JetGirl]

I know some folks love minutia...

Maybe so, but I ain't one of them. I'm more from the "Stupid is as stupid does" camp and "Accidental" means it's the gun's fault because there's something mechanically wrong with it. "Negligent" was having a damn finger in the trigger guard.

 

[Tinman]

Not to diminish the point you’re trying to make here, because it is a very valid point.

Just a few things, #1 sometimes photo’s like this can be deceiving. The kneeling cop could be just to the left of his partner, and due to the angle of the camera it appears to be pointed right at his partner.

This does bring up a very interesting point (probably only of interest to those who work in teams) but as the cover man you need to be aware of where your partner is pointed. Here’s the scenario I mean. Cop kneels, his partner is maybe 3 steps further away from the car, and clear of the muzzle. When kneeling cop turns his focus away from the car, his partner moves in to check for additional threats instead of standing his ground and covering his zone. This puts him right in the middle of the fire zone for cop #1.

Second issue, turning you’re back on an unsecured zone. Why you would feel the need to turn away from the car to secure the immediate prisoner control is beyond me. My advice in this situation is get more men. Two advance in front of grounded suspect between him and the car from behind someone covering the down guy. Then the cover man can advance and go hands on with grounded guy. All the zones stay covered and bad guy gets secured as quickly as safely possible.

Last one, then I’m out. Gun points where the eyes point. That’s how you know when your partner did a stupid and just advanced through your zone. That’s just a hard one when you spend a lot of time on a square range without dealing with multiple threat zones.

A perfect example of training vs real world application.

Just my thoughts

Tinman….

 

[MilitaryArms]

Maybe so, but I ain't one of them. I'm more from the "Stupid is as stupid does" camp and "Accidental" means it's the gun's fault because there's something mechanically wrong with it. "Negligent" was having a damn finger in the trigger guard.

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree here. But the word accident does not imply mechanical failure.

ac·ci·dent [ak-si-duhnt]
–noun
1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
2. Law. such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
3. any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.

I can assure you, that officer had no intention of firing her handgun. AD is correct per the dictionary. It's also been around for a very long time and I see no need to update it, at least for my use.

By the way, when you're not paying attention and you hit your mailbox while backing out of the drive way, you caused the incident to occur, you can't blame it on mechanical failure. In any case, I doubt you say you had a "negligent". I'll bet you'll say you had an accident. When police show up to the scene of an "accident", they don't take negligent reports, they take accident reports. Few auto accidents occur because of mechanical failure, they're almost always the result of a driver not paying attention or otherwise doing something stupid.

The same is true with firearms. Therefore, "AD" is applicable in my view.

 

[Indiana]

Here's another photo for this thread.....I guess he at least gets points for not having his finger on the trigger........

 

[Integraholic]

In the first pic, I'm assuming that the officer kneeling on the ground was covering the person still in the car. When the pic was snapped, his partner was moving in as the first officer was looking elsewhere.

 

[cce1302]

Thanks Annie, but I'll call them AD's from now, and until I die. We called them AD's in the Corps and I see no reason to teach this old dog new tricks. I know some folks love minutia... so I let them change things up every few years with the latest and greatest in acronyms.

Meanwhile, I'll always remember AD Dunwoody, a Sgt. at my base that popped a round off through his truck door while on duty with a 1911. The nickname cracked me up then, and still does to this day.

The Marine Corps calls them negligent discharges now. Semper Gumby.

 

[MilitaryArms]

The Marine Corps calls them negligent discharges now. Semper Gumby.

I'm an old school Marine, from the 80's.

And AD Dunwoody will always be AD Dunwoody to me.

 

[Dogman]

Here's another photo for this thread.....I guess he at least gets points for not having his finger on the trigger........

Must have had an itch he couldn't reach.

 

[MilitaryArms]

That is the craziest picture... you have to wonder if it wasn't staged for the pic. I can only hope so.

 

[indyjoe]

I see it like this: Negligent means your action or lack of caused the situation where a discharge occurred. Negligent is having you finger on the trigger when it should not be an discharging because of it. Accidental is when you discharged while not meaning to, but it was not because you did anything stupid. This would most commonly be a mechanical failure. It was an accident that it went off (you did not mean to), but you did not do something negligent to cause it. It is just semantics, but this is the same difference between traffic collision and a traffic accident. If you hit someone because they stopped and you were following close, it was not an accident. You were negligent by driving without proper following distance and it was a collision.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I see it like this: Negligent means your action or lack of caused the situation where a discharge occurred. Negligent is having you finger on the trigger when it should not be an discharging because of it. Accidental is when you discharged while not meaning to, but it was not because you did anything stupid. This would most commonly be a mechanical failure. It was an accident that it went off (you did not mean to), but you did not do something negligent to cause it. It is just semantics, but this is the same difference between traffic collision and a traffic accident. If you hit someone because they stopped and you were following close, it was not an accident. You were negligent by driving without proper following distance and it was a collision.

Yup, semantics. Either is perfectly acceptable. I choose not to use ND as I see no reason to change.