Kris 'Tanto' Paronto says you don't need a $5,000 rifle.

[Excalibur]

Well yeah, but he said he bought his Bushmaster in 2005, after the ban sunset and since then, "basic" ARs are a dime a dozen and with building one from scratch, you can put together an AR that's potentially worth a lot more because you built it yourself. It's the same as building your own PC than buying one off the shelf if you know how to do it correctly. The only difference is the resell value might not be the same because some people rather buy a completed rifle made by a brand name than a frankengun

I have an AR pistol that I built it the way I want for a purpose but I still run the "cheaper" Sport rifle with a stock trigger, but surrounded by a bunch of different furniture.

 

[Coach]

The shooter makes the difference not the gun. If the gun runs the nut behind the gun is the factor that matters the most.

 

[GIJEW]

The shooter makes the difference not the gun. If the gun runs the nut behind the gun is the factor that matters the most.

Yes. Paronto said this too, in this video

 

[Trigger Time]

The shooter makes the difference not the gun. If the gun runs the nut behind the gun is the factor that matters the most.

That's a given. But good tools do matter

 

[Excalibur]

That's a given. But good tools do matter

But the price of a gun doesn't tell you it's a "good tool" and that goes for any tool. A good tool is the one that is reliable and works when yo

 

[Trigger Time]

But the price of a gun doesn't tell you it's a "good tool" and that goes for any tool. A good tool is the one that is reliable and works when yo

the people who can't afford or are too cheep to buy higher end guns always focus on the price and always try to justify lower end guns are just as good. It's not true. The gun he owns like I said is the quality of an older colt. Your basic milspec weapon. Same quLity as used by the military. Anything below that you are taking a risk. He isn't using some home build or an Anderson or PSA. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Excalibur]

What's wrong with PSA?

 

[Trigger Time]

What's wrong with PSA?

Are you being serious? PSA has a nitch. Would I stake my life on it? No but maybe I just value my life more than others value theirs.
save up your money and buy a BCM. That is the new industry standard for a true milspec starter AR. You can get them in the "M4" carbine configuration or go to higher end models BCM makes from there.
It doesn't take too long to save up. Don't rush to buy something just to get a gun in your hand. Breath, take your time and buy quality the first time.

 

[Excalibur]

Are you being serious? PSA has a nitch. Would I stake my life on it? No but maybe I just value my life more than others value theirs.
save up your money and buy a BCM. That is the new industry standard for a true milspec starter AR. You can get them in the "M4" carbine configuration or go to higher end models BCM makes from there.
It doesn't take too long to save up. Don't rush to buy something just to get a gun in your hand. Breath, take your time and buy quality the first time.

And I go back to the idea that even brand names are doing the budget build starter guns under 700. Springfield, aside, I saw a Sport on sale for 450...for an AR. Most people who don't shoot for a living really don't need to buy rifles over 1000 bucks or twice as much if all they are gonna do is probably take it to the range a few times and keep it in their safe for just in case. Some of us with the money and the want can.

And BCM is not the be all, end all company for ARs. Daniel Defense has a good rep for a long and even Smith and Wesson. The whole point of "milspec" is what the military wants it vs how we as civilians want it and willing to work with certain quality of manufacturing but it doesn't mean milspec is the be all end all for actual quality.

 

[KJQ6945]

And I go back to the idea that even brand names are doing the budget build starter guns under 700. Springfield, aside, I saw a Sport on sale for 450...for an AR. Most people who don't shoot for a living really don't need to buy rifles over 1000 bucks or twice as much if all they are gonna do is probably take it to the range a few times and keep it in their safe for just in case. Some of us with the money and the want can.

And BCM is not the be all, end all company for ARs. Daniel Defense has a good rep for a long and even Smith and Wesson. The whole point of "milspec" is what the military wants it vs how we as civilians want it and willing to work with certain quality of manufacturing but it doesn't mean milspec is the be all end all for actual quality.

Milspec is the baseline, don't settle for less.

 

[KG1]

I'm having flashbacks.

 

[Trigger Time]

Milspec is the baseline, don't settle for less.

agreed. And you know me and know I won't. Nor will my kids inherit less than milspec. I've bought gifts less than milspec but I don't feel bad

 

[Fordtough25]

Cheap may work but quality will always last longer with less change for defects. Drills, cars, ar15s it's life. I still follow colt as the standard even though I have more expensive and cheaper rifles.

 

[Archer]

Mil-spec is a term that gets tossed around with reckless abandon. There are only a handful of companies who actually follow the technical data package (TDP) set forth by the military as to the specs of what is acceptable in the M16/M4 family. You call up most places and start asking them about the TDP and they won't know what you're saying. The reason behind buying a more expensive AR15 is QC and consistency. A Daniel Defense or BCM or Colt or whatever will be more consistent than a S&W or Bushmaster or Ruger. Shoot, even Aero Precision just sent their first employee ever to an AR armorers course three weeks ago. That should be really disconcerting to everyone. A company that only makes ARs and AR components has only just recently bothered to properly train someone in their function and assembly.

With the AR market being at an all time saturation point, and prices the lowest they've been, there's very few reasons that I can think of to go budget. You can buy a Colt 6920 for $800. Save a little longer and buy a BCM or DD. Potential bans are no longer looming, at least for now. So what's the rush? Most people don't have an imperative need for an AR. I always recommend that people save their money and do without until they can afford something that will work the way it's supposed to.

If people spent a lot more time saving for good stuff and a lot less time trying to explain how the sub par product they bought and. Ow have an emotional attachment to is the same quality as something with a proven track record, the world might suck less.

None of this is elitism, by the way. Im practicing what I preach, currently saving my money for a Daniel Defense.

 

[Excalibur]

So you're saying because of the recent downward prices of brand name ARs, we should actually stick to brand names over building your own from parts of different brands that may or may not be "milspec"?

Example is instead of building an AR pistol in 300 BLK that'll end up costing me way under 1000 or even less (even with a brace), I should just go to Copper Custom and buy a 1300 BCM (and that's without a brace or other stuff for it like optics)

 

[Archer]

So you're saying because of the recent downward prices of brand name ARs, we should actually stick to brand names over building your own from parts of different brands that may or may not be "milspec"?

Example is instead of building an AR pistol in 300 BLK that'll end up costing me way under 1000 or even less (even with a brace), I should just go to Copper Custom and buy a 1300 BCM (and that's without a brace or other stuff for it like optics)

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. I'll assume you're not taking anything I said personally.
For most people, yes (also, duh). Buying from a reputable manufacturer who staffs professional armorers and uses in spec parts will always be preferable to a bunch of parts that may or may not be in spec, for me.

If one is willing to source parts that are made to spec, and have the knowledge to assemble it with an understanding of tolerance stacking, go for it. If one doesn't, but wants to do it anyway, go for it. This is America. Im not anyone's boss.

But if one doesn't care about having spec parts (actual specs per the TDP, not spec because the manufacturer just said so), then one ought not to assert that their gun assembled from questionable components is "just as good" as one made by professionals. A PSA barrel is not as accurate as a BCM, or a DD, or a Colt, etc. That's not conjecture, its fact. A BCM buffer tube properly spec'd and made of T7075 aluminum will be stronger than an Anderson made of T6061 aluminum that probably wasn't checked for quality.

 

[Alpo]

I bought my first Daniel Defense in the first year they were available to the public. An unknown company to almost everyone. I remember being at the range and having some old salts snickering at my unknown brand.

Funny how things change over the years.

When it is all said and done, there are a great many AR's that will do the job for most of us "non-operators". I've had very good luck with Palmetto uppers with the FN "machinegun steel" barrels. I don't know if they have them any more, but those barrels are great.

 

[two70]

But if one doesn't care about having spec parts (actual specs per the TDP, not spec because the manufacturer just said so), then one ought not to assert that their gun assembled from questionable components is "just as good" as one made by professionals. A PSA barrel is not as accurate as a BCM, or a DD, or a Colt, etc. That's not conjecture, its fact. A BCM buffer tube properly spec'd and made of T7075 aluminum will be stronger than an Anderson made of T6061 aluminum that probably wasn't checked for quality.

A BCM, DD, or Colt barrel is not likely to be as accurate as a Shilen, Hart, or Lilja barrel either but so what? The operative term is practical accuracy and any of those barrels, including the lowly PSA, is capable of greater potential accuracy than most "operators" are. Most people would be better served by spending their extra money on ammo and training than spending it on a barrel that is more likely to print small groups from a benchrest when the purpose is to be able to rapidly engage targets at relatively close range. Excalibur asked about a .300 BO pistol with a brace, if he wants the utmost benchrest accuracy, who made the barrel is likely the least of his problems with such a setup.

 

[Excalibur]

That's exactly my point. I am researching my parts to build my AR pistol in 300 BLK and some of them happened to be bought from PSA and other companies. The true test is to see if it works well enough once I put it all together and the sum of all the parts would have been cheaper than if I had bought a completed gun of the same style from a brand name company.

There's If you know what you're doing and build vs if you know your brand name and purchase smartly.

 

[Archer]

A BCM, DD, or Colt barrel is not likely to be as accurate as a Shilen, Hart, or Lilja barrel either but so what? The operative term is practical accuracy and any of those barrels, including the lowly PSA, is capable of greater potential accuracy than most "operators" are. Most people would be better served by spending their extra money on ammo and training than spending it on a barrel that is more likely to print small groups from a benchrest when the purpose is to be able to rapidly engage targets at relatively close range. Excalibur asked about a .300 BO pistol with a brace, if he wants the utmost benchrest accuracy, who made the barrel is likely the least of his problems with such a setup.

Understood, the barrel was just an example of parts that are QC'd. And, though I didn't mention it earlier, proper has port sizing is pretty paramount.