Laser question

[esrice]

I get all my information from movies so if you tell me this is not a reality
it will really shake my belief system with disastrous results.

You may be onto something. . . . .

 

[paddling_man]

Says the INGO Pirate. . . .

Aaaaarrrrrr, matey!

Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late
The cannons don't thunder, there's nothin' to plunder
I'm an over-forty victim of fate
Arriving too late...

 

[VERT]

Actually I don't quite agree with that either. I think there are times when pointing a loaded firearm/light/laser at someone without pulling the trigger is perfectly acceptable. Remember that the rule is "do not point at something you are not willing to destroy"-- it never says you must destroy it if you point at it. I believe the "if I'm pointing, I'm shooting" mindset is a potentially dangerous one.

My point with the laser is that I don't think a red dot on the chest of someone intent on killing you is going to be any kind of deterrent. In fact, I doubt they'd even notice.

I feel like I have been served. Thank you for pointing this out and I agree. Although I don't like the idea of pointing a firearm at another person there may be a valid reason to do so. In the original post I was commenting on the use of a laser as a deterent, and I mentioned a person MIGHT need to be pulling the trigger. I did not mean to give the impression that people should shoot first and ask questions later. However, my being the type of person that would be hesitant to draw my weapon an assailant could be very close. So if I point a gun, there will be a reason for doing so and by default I have to immediately be prepared to shoot.

Regarding lasers I do have one concern. Two close friends have recently purchased small revolvers with Crimson Trace. In both instances the main intent for the laser was to scare the criminal. Both persons are excellent marksman and knowledgeable, safe gun owners. One of my friends even made the comment that if the criminal did not run away he would know exactly where the bullet was going and would stop them with a single shot. Neither person wants to shoot another individual and will make every effort not to or use the minimal amount of force they can. Unfortunately this could be just as dangerous as an "if I am pointing, I am shooting" mindset.

I do not believe that the criminal is going to even notice the laser. They will be to fixated on the person or gun confronting them. The gun is the threat not the laser. I do think lasers are excellent tools for training and dry fire practice. Like I mentioned I would love to have one on a small revolver. So, if the laser gives the gun owner confidence in their gun or their abilities then I think they should purchase one. I just hope my friends don't gain a false sense of security by the addition of a sighting device.

 

[esrice]

I feel like I have been served.

I wasn't trying to single you out VERT-- I was making more of a general statement to the readership, based on what your post said.

I just hope my friends don't gain a false sense of security by the addition of a sighting device.

What you've pointed out here is the major problem with lasers-- they can sometimes provide a "crutch" that give people a reason to be less-capable shooters. Lasers can play a great secondary role, but the user must remember that its secondary-- meaning that you use it when your primary fails, or when your primary becomes too difficult to use (like when shooting from odd positions).

 

[VERT]

I wasn't trying to single you out VERT-- I was making more of a general statement to the readership, based on what your post said.

And that is why I love INGO so much. It is that type of exchange that allows people to read and learn. I for one took something away from this conversation.

 

[thompal]

Actually I don't quite agree with that either. I think there are times when pointing a loaded firearm/light/laser at someone without pulling the trigger is perfectly acceptable. Remember that the rule is "do not point at something you are not willing to destroy"-- it never says you must destroy it if you point at it. I believe the "if I'm pointing, I'm shooting" mindset is a potentially dangerous one.

This^.
Which is one of the (many) reasons I'd like to take some SD or force on force classes. It's difficult to train by yourself in shoot/no-shoot situations. I trained on the FATS system years ago, and it was very helpful, but was geared toward LEOs, so the situations were a little skewed.

It's too easy, when practicing by yourself, to get muscle memory for automatic 'draw - aim - SHOOT.'

My point with the laser is that I don't think a red dot on the chest of someone intent on killing you is going to be any kind of deterrent. In fact, I doubt they'd even notice.

I doubt many aggressors keep a close eye on their own chest (or forehead).

 

[thompal]

Agreed. This attitude is usually the outcome of watching too many movies involving samurai.

Or from doing draw and shoot practice on your own. You get muscle memory that tells your hand that since it has drawn, the next step is shoot.

 

[paddling_man]

Or from doing draw and shoot practice on your own. You get muscle memory that tells your hand that since it has drawn, the next step is shoot.

Touche. Though my post was tongue-in-cheek, I believe you are describing a separate scenario from that referenced earlier.

You describe a fluid point-and-shoot as the continuing dynamic of extended action. I believe the reference was more of the bravado exuded by the samurai-couch-ninjas who have repeatedly posted that "if my gun gets pulled, someone IS getting shot." Either bluster or BS, a man *should* be evaluating his decisions at a microlevel at every step before that bullet-leaves-the-gun-and-can-never-be-returned.

A prosecutor will examine your actions afterward at a microlevel. I would never want a prosecutor, even in a defensive shooting, to note that my personal drills had made my "muscle memory that tells your hand that since it has drawn, the next step is shoot."

A couple of years of karate and folks used the muscle memory excuse of why they lashed out at someone. The sensei typically emphasized that they lacked control. I'm not saying you do. I don't know you. That was my experience though.


[EDIT: I just read your post #26. I believe we are likely more on the same page than in different chapters.]

 

[Mounty09]

I have one on my LCP and like it. The LCP's sights suck and this helps aim faster. It was alot of money to spend on one but I'm happy with it. Pretty easy to adjust too.