LEE Dies Issue

[noylj]

Inexperience, then, but most of us can feel the case mouth hit a die and know something is off. The original RCBS carbide sizing dies has NO chamfer and you quickly learned to ease the case it.
In your case, I would assume that the first case hit and you, not knowing better, forced it. Simple and purely human action.
With a flared case mouth, you probably couldn't have gotten the case in the die.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Inexperience, then, but most of us can feel the case mouth hit a die and know something is off. The original RCBS carbide sizing dies has NO chamfer and you quickly learned to ease the case it.
In your case, I would assume that the first case hit and you, not knowing better, forced it. Simple and purely human action.
With a flared case mouth, you probably couldn't have gotten the case in the die.

WOW People read my ORIGINAL POST!
My issue was with the Carbide Factory Crimp Die. Not the sizing die. Not the bullet seat die (other that the boogered threads).
The Carbide Factory Seat Die is in the last position of the Dillon XL650 toolhead. The sleeve was installed upside down from the factory and would randomly catch the lip of one side of the case. It didn't hit squarely on all sides that would have been a tale tale sign of an issue when abnormal resistance would have been felt. With a progressive press it isn't as easy to tell if there is a slight restriction going on. When you have five actions happening at one pull there will always be restriction felt at the handle.

No offense noylj but you don't know my experience level to make the assumption that the issue was due to inexperience, unless by inexperience you mean inexperience with faulty dies.

My only reason for posting the issue was to pass on a little nugget to others so that they might benefit from the issues that happened to me, but if you are such an expert and above learning from others then just pass on by.

 

[357 Terms]

LOL!

Maybe you should show us poor ignorant INGO members as much "understanding' as you do your customers.

I never pass the blame and I ALWAYS apologize for the problems they are experiencing even if it was their own fault.

Look Glueman; you were impatient and drove a ridiculous distance to buy a set of dies (for a caliber that you already had a set for) from a huge box store, and you either did not inspect them or you couldn't properly thread them in, or...whatever!!!

excuse us ignorant souls for questioning whether you have any mechanical ability, ....and yes, I read your OP!!!

 

[Gluemanz28]

LOL!

Maybe you should show us poor ignorant INGO members as much "understanding' as you do your customers.



Look Glueman; you were impatient and drove a ridiculous distance to buy a set of dies (for a caliber that you already had a set for) from a huge box store, and you either did not inspect them or you couldn't properly thread them in, or...whatever!!!

excuse us ignorant souls for questioning whether you have any mechanical ability, ....and yes, I read your OP!!!

That is twice in the same post that you called yourself ignorant, but please don't include my INGO brothers and sisters in your opinions of yourself.

In the future I would suggest that you remember this. "It is better to appear ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

 

[357 Terms]

I am reminded of an old saying also

Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the person arguing with him.


So, I'm not going to argue with you.

 

[RipkinC]

Thanks Ripkin for your help on this and for the spare parts that Andrew gave me for my Dillon XL650 when I was down there several months back. I haven't made it to the new shop yet but looking forward to it.

Profire Rocks!!!

that's what were here for. just give us a buzz any time you need help!

 

[Gluemanz28]

My replacement parts just arrived from Lee Precision.
They sent me the following:
SB2154 Adjustment Screw
SU3144 Crimp Sleeve for 45 ACP
Product Catalog



Notice the Catalog displays American Pride with the Statue of Liberty. I wish they took more pride in their workmanship and dealing with customers.


Here in the pictures it is clearly visible that the sleeve has a taper that should be installed towards the case mouth.




I am glad that they took care of the issue and that the replacement parts were sent out quickly to me. I received them from Hartford, WI in three business days after speaking to customer service and tech support for the second time. My only hangup is no apology for the issue. Not by phone or in the receipt that I attached. All that was put on the customer notes was SENT AT NO CHARGE.

In conclusion I am happy with my Lee Dies now that they are put together as they should have been from the factory. I will from now on check all dies purchased from Lee Precision before use. I have learned what a poor excuse for a lifetime warranty they have, but that is not a huge issue because their dies seldom ever wear out.

I will make my future die purchases from my LGS and let them deal with the returns to Lee if needed. (I did enjoy the drive to Portage with my Wife after church the day I purchased them. We had a nice lunch at Quaker Steak & Lube and since I have a company car it didn't cost me anything for the drive either. I would never consider a date with my beautiful wife "Being impatient and driving a ridiculous distance for a set of dies"

I hope someone has benefited from my learning experience throughout this process.

Take Care and Blessings to You and Yours.

 

[Broom_jm]

So, for the sake of argument, let me ask you this: What if Lee has a quality control process in place that absolutely precludes the possibility of that die leaving their factory with the part installed incorrectly? What if someone else took that die apart and put it back together incorrectly? If that was true, and it's quite possible it is, then you got a three-day turnaround and free parts from a company that builds quality equipment at a reasonable price, right here in America...and all you can say is you wish they took pride in their workmanship and customer service?

There's just no pleasing some people. Fact of the matter is, even if they did screw up and send it out wrong from the factory, it was YOUR job to disassemble, inspect and clean the die before using it, and when you brought the matter to their attention, they took care of you at no cost out of your pocket. From any reasonable standpoint, you got very good customer service. When that particular tool lasts 50 years with no further problems, THEN will you think it's a quality product?

 

[Kart29]

That fact that they replaced all the parts free of charge whether it was the manufacturer's error not doesn't seem to be the issue. The issue is that the people on the phone didn't say "I'm sorry". That seems to be the big beef.

 

[spaniel]

That fact that they replaced all the parts free of charge whether it was the manufacturer's error not doesn't seem to be the issue. The issue is that the people on the phone didn't say "I'm sorry". That seems to be the big beef.

+1. Words are cheap. Action is not. They took care of the issue at no charge, that is ACTION.

It does not seem we have any evidence as to whether this happened at the factory, or that this was a purchased, messed with, and re-shelved item. The OP seems to be getting hung up on a very small issue.

I've had lots of issues with products from lots of companies. If, at the end of the day, they fix it on their dime, I have little concern for anything else. I have worked in large companies and know better than to assume they are super-human. At the end of the day if they make it right, it is right. I just spend four months dealing with repeated heat pump issues only to find out that the root cause was they sold me an over-sized heat pump. Multiple days off work to be there for the technician, increased heating costs due to the down pump, etc etc, but at the end of the day they absorbed all costs and replaced with the correct unit. So they still have my business. Stuff happens.

FWIW Lee is a low end die brand. The only die I have ever had break was a Lee. But in pistol calibers I have less concern for quality so the value is warranted, I just go RCBS/Redding for rifle dies. The Lee dies are cheaper for a reason. If you want Cadillac dies pay the Cadillac price.

 

[billybob44]

" The Lee dies are cheaper for a reason. "

Spaniel watch the 'Fur Fly'!!

I know that you are kind of new to INGO (89 Posts+a couple of months)..You WILL fire up the Lee FanBoys..

I have an Universal De-cap die+a couple of Factory Crimp Dies+that is ENOUGH Lee products for me...Bill.

 

[Gluemanz28]

So, for the sake of argument, let me ask you this: What if Lee has a quality control process in place that absolutely precludes the possibility of that die leaving their factory with the part installed incorrectly? What if someone else took that die apart and put it back together incorrectly? If that was true, and it's quite possible it is, then you got a three-day turnaround and free parts from a company that builds quality equipment at a reasonable price, right here in America...and all you can say is you wish they took pride in their workmanship and customer service?

There's just no pleasing some people. Fact of the matter is, even if they did screw up and send it out wrong from the factory, it was YOUR job to disassemble, inspect and clean the die before using it, and when you brought the matter to their attention, they took care of you at no cost out of your pocket. From any reasonable standpoint, you got very good customer service. When that particular tool lasts 50 years with no further problems, THEN will you think it's a quality product?

I might agree with you Broom that it is possible that it did leave the factory correctly and then somebody took it apart at Bass Pro and put it back together incorrectly if I didn't receive information about Lee from an employee from Profire. I consider Profire to be go to people for reloading information. The Profire employee said that they have seen new Carbide Factory Crimp Dies sent to them directly from Lee with the wrong crimp sleeve installed. For example they would receive a 40 S&W with a 9MM sleeve. This has happened more than once. Maybe the UPS guy is opening the box taking them apart, putting them back together incorrectly and taping the box closed.

I don't disagree that it is my job to take a brand new die apart and inspect it. I already said that in my last post, but thanks again for bringing that to my attention. I might have forgotten that had you not reminded me.

I disagree with your statement that I got very good customer service. What I did get was just enough customer service to keep me as a customer. Kart29 hit the nail on the head that not one person apologized for the issue. An apology for the issue plus the replacement parts would have been very good customer service.

I agree with the employee from Profire that Lee Dies are a good value, but I am a little surprised in their customer service practices.

I do not disagree that I have a lot to learn when it comes to reloading, but learning from a guy that likes to argue instead of teach doesn't work for me.

I have no intensions of arguing about this, just wanting to help. Defending the facts is getting old so take from this post whatever you wish.

 

[Broom_jm]

As near as I can tell there are only two salient facts to this story: Lee took care of the problem but never apologized for your inconvenience. I can understand you wanting to hear those words, but what if they'd been very kind and apologetic...and did not replace the damaged parts?

The bottom line in customer service is always going to be: Did they make it right? I submit that they did make it right, and did so quickly, with no cost to you. You can ask for more, like an apology, it's just that it makes you sound unappreciative. Listen to what everyone else in this thread is trying to say...their customer services practices are pretty dang good, especially in this day and age!

 

[45fan]

Spaniel watch the 'Fur Fly'!!

I know that you are kind of new to INGO (89 Posts+a couple of months)..You WILL fire up the Lee FanBoys..

I have an Universal De-cap die+a couple of Factory Crimp Dies+that is ENOUGH Lee products for me...Bill.

No fan boy here, I just happen to have a lot of Lee products on my reloading bench. My opinion, they are cheep, poorly put together products. But the fact remains, they do work (most of the time) and depending on the process that I am working on at that time, they do get the job done with minimal effort and drama.

Both of my presses are Lee, and while no where near a Dillon, they didnt hit the wallet anywhere near like a Dillon would have. The biggest issue I have had with Lee products has been the dies, and the only one I have had not work well for me was my .308 Win die. Honestly I think that was as much the fault of what I was reloading as the dies, as I was reloading military brass fired from machine guns at the time of failure. Switched my sizing die out for an RCBS, and havent had an issue since. I have other brands of pistol dies too ( I REALLY like my Hornady dies) but when I reload for as many different calibers as I do, it gets expensive buying high end dies for every caliber. I typically start out with Lee, and will replace with better quality if I run into issues as I go.

 

[Gluemanz28]

As near as I can tell there are only two salient facts to this story: Lee took care of the problem but never apologized for your inconvenience. I can understand you wanting to hear those words, but what if they'd been very kind and apologetic...and did not replace the damaged parts?

The bottom line in customer service is always going to be: Did they make it right? I submit that they did make it right, and did so quickly, with no cost to you. You can ask for more, like an apology, it's just that it makes you sound unappreciative. Listen to what everyone else in this thread is trying to say...their customer services practices are pretty dang good, especially in this day and age!

Broom I think that you are still missing the point. I was out some expense. I went through several cases and bullets that got damaged in the process of trying to figure out what was going on with the setup of the dies. I even brought that to their attention and thought that they would at least apologize for my loss.


Secondly when you say "their customer services practices are pretty dang good, especially in this day and age" is the reason customer service is going down for some companies. We have to stop lowering the bar for what is acceptable customer service if we want to be treated the way we should be treated.

 

[billybob44]

" I typically start out with Lee, and will replace with better quality"

No fan boy here, I just happen to have a lot of Lee products on my reloading bench. My opinion, they are cheep, poorly put together products. But the fact remains, they do work (most of the time) and depending on the process that I am working on at that time, they do get the job done with minimal effort and drama.

Both of my presses are Lee, and while no where near a Dillon, they didnt hit the wallet anywhere near like a Dillon would have. The biggest issue I have had with Lee products has been the dies, and the only one I have had not work well for me was my .308 Win die. Honestly I think that was as much the fault of what I was reloading as the dies, as I was reloading military brass fired from machine guns at the time of failure. Switched my sizing die out for an RCBS, and havent had an issue since. I have other brands of pistol dies too ( I REALLY like my Hornady dies) but when I reload for as many different calibers as I do, it gets expensive buying high end dies for every caliber. I typically start out with Lee, and will replace with better quality if I run into issues as I go.

Great post+GREAT screen name-Just took out a load of Colt, and acp. out of my DILLON case cleaner this AM.

I do NOT enjoy doing a job (Or hobby) if I have to work around 'issues' with the tools. If something is not going right, I will keep looking for something that I am not doing right with the process. If all that I am doing during the process is correct, and I find that I have a "Tool Problem", I am 'less than happy'.

Most all of the Lee tools work--Well--Kind of work.??..Bill.