Legal ramifications of using reloads or wax shells in HD sit.

[Valvestate]

What would the legal ramifications be of using either of these? I know little about either, but see that it's plainly a bad idea.

 

[Rookie]

I don't see any problems with reloads. A good shoot doesn't depend on bullet type.

I don't see any sense in wax shells.

 

[ckcollins2003]

If the shooting is justified, ie. someone breaks into your home and threatens your life, I don't see how using reloaded ammunition would make the legality of the shoot any different.

Self defense and the use of deadly force can be used with any weapon available, be it a baseball bat, knife, lamp, or firearm. The weapon you use doesn't make the act illegal.

 

[Valvestate]

A friend of mine was telling me you'd likely be grilled in court by the prosecution at best and put in jail for a while at worst.

 

[ckcollins2003]

A friend of mine was telling me you'd likely be grilled in court by the prosecution at best and put in jail for a while at worst.

Self defense is self defense. The police aren't going to ask if you used reloaded ammunition to defend yourself so I don't see how it would even come up.

Maybe your friend has more experience shooting people with reloads than I do, which is none, but from a legal standpoint I don't see how the make and style of the bullet could turn self defense into murder.

I once had a friend tell me the same thing, but I can't for the life of me find any law that states you must use a certain kind of ammunition in a self defense situation.

 

[Ted]

Mas Ayoob has specifically addressed this matter.

This is a singular post to a thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2129976&postcount=140

This is the thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-172213.html#post2129976

 

[ckcollins2003]

Mas Ayoob has specifically addressed this matter.

This is a singular post to a thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2129976&postcount=140

This is the thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-172213.html#post2129976

I've never seen those before! Brings a whole new perspective to loading self defense ammo. Tried to rep but I guess I gotta spread it around more first.

 

[Valvestate]

Mas Ayoob has specifically addressed this matter.

This is a singular post to a thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2129976&postcount=140

This is the thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-172213.html#post2129976

Ted, thank you for the great links. The explanations in those threads easily put down any desire to use non-factory ammo in any SD/HD situation.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Short of SHTF I'd never use reloads for anything but killing paper, even though I'm CDO enough to make them as consistent as factory loads.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I also will not use handloads in a defensive arm.

1) No matter how much expertise one may claim, handloads are simply not as reliable as factory loads;

2) Why give a plaintiff's attorney this issue to play with? Trials are not about facts, they're about who puts on the best show. If you use factory loads, the attorney will have no opportunity to make you appear to be a sociopath who sits up at night trying to work up ultra-lethal loads for your defense gun.

Somewhere here on the board is a message thread referencing an article written by some hand-wringing sob sister making the case that Zimmerman's use of FACTORY hollow point ammo in the Trayvon Martin shooting is proof positive that he's a nutjob who was actively looking for someone to shoot.

Can you imagine what attitude that the lamestream media would be taking right now if Zimmerman had loaded his own?

 

[Ted]

......1) No matter how much expertise one may claim, handloads are simply not as reliable as factory loads;......

Agreed with most of your post, save this statement.

Many people have repeatedly stated that it is unwise to purchase ammunition from the same place that it would be unwise to drink the water. I'm inclined to believe them.

Though I will capitulate to certain brands have better quality controls in place, as opposed to others to include surplus ammunition.

 

[ckcollins2003]

1) No matter how much expertise one may claim, handloads are simply not as reliable as factory loads;

I agree with your entire post except for this statement. There are many examples here on this forum where factory loads have been really messed up and some not even fire.

Other than 1 squib round (which was completely my fault) I've never had a handload not shoot the way it's supposed to. I think a lot of reloaders will vouch the same thing.

In fact, when making your own ammo, you are the quality control. As to where buying factory ammo is a guessing game that someone else did their job correctly.

 

[CathyInBlue]

I still plan on getting a full handgun ammunition factory in a reloading kit (Hornady Lock And Load Ammo Plant looks sexy as Hell), for the range and imminent zombie apocalypse, but will not carry it until I have numbers backing up my loads are more consistent than the factor loads. Then, if anything like Ayoob writes about happens to me, I just reach into the database and print out a report on the consistency of the batch of reloads that happened to be in the gun at the time.

 

[JB357Mag]

For myself I will only use factory ammo for SD.

Just to avoid any complications and also for me SD ammo
is not a place to save money, my ass is worth it.

Jimmy

 

[Bill B]

Did you notice that the only cut and dried self-defense case was the one with factory ammo? The others were not cut and dried, but muddled by other factors only one of which was reloaded ammo.

 

[actaeon277]

Juries are not filled with INGO members.
The letter of the law isn't as important as PERCEPTION.
You have to worry about the police, prosecutor, jury, defense lawyer, etc.
Why throw 1 more variable.

 

[Mackey]

Mas Ayoob has specifically addressed this matter.

This is a singular post to a thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2129976&postcount=140

This is the thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-172213.html#post2129976

Thanks for the above links. Very interesting reading and worth consideration.

 

[357 Terms]

Why JHP? - THR

This is a link to another thread.

Ayoob chimed in on this one also...it seems to refute the facts Ayoob has put forth before.

Its long but interesting.

If you want to make an informed decision this is a must read.

 

[opus1776]

I still plan on getting a full handgun ammunition factory in a reloading kit (Hornady Lock And Load Ammo Plant looks sexy as Hell), for the range and imminent zombie apocalypse, but will not carry it until I have numbers backing up my loads are more consistent than the factor loads. Then, if anything like Ayoob writes about happens to me, I just reach into the database and print out a report on the consistency of the batch of reloads that happened to be in the gun at the time.

And then your evidence would be ruled inadmissible for the following reasons:

1) Since the data that you are providing has not been independently verified, you could have made up any numbers to look good for you.

2) Unless you have an extensive paper trail, you cannot prove that the ammo in your gun and the data in your database are from the same lot.

Then you become the next Harold Fish.

======================================
"Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" K. Moss
You can NEVER be too rich or too thin.
Life is not a journey, but a series of unplanned detours...
Perfection: is not a goal---it's a demanded expectation.

 

[357 Terms]

Then you become the next Harold Fish.

I believe Harold Fish used factory 10mm loads.

His trial became problematic because the D.A. made an issue out of the 10mm and hollow points.

Which doesn't seem to be an issue with "experts" ( using the 10mm and HP's), yet no one person in a self defense shooting has had an issue with handloads.