Legality of Machine Gun Ownership in Indiana

[CathyInBlue]

I'm sure this has been gone over a million times in this board, but I can't find a reference in the search function of this particular angle. To wit:

IC 35-47-5-8
Machine gun
Sec. 8. A person who owns or possesses a machine gun commits a Class C felony.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.104-2000, SEC.3; P.L.123-2002, SEC.43.

IC 35-47-5-9
Operating loaded machine gun
Sec. 9. A person who operates a loaded machine gun commits a Class B felony.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.104-2000, SEC.4; P.L.123-2002, SEC.44.

IC 35-47-5-10
Applicability of statutes relating to machine guns
Sec. 10. The provisions of section 8 or 9 of this chapter shall not be construed to apply to any of the following:
...
(8) Persons lawfully engaged in the manufacture, transportation, distribution, use or possession of any material, substance, or device for the sole purpose of industrial, agricultural, mining, construction, educational, or any other lawful use.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.104-2000, SEC.5; P.L.123-2002, SEC.45.

I read that as the B and C felonies for using or owning a machine gun, respectively, do not apply if you also use any material or substance for any lawful purpose. So, if I choose my applicable material or substance to be Dawn dishwashing detergent and my lawful purpose being to cut the grease on my pots and pans, then I'm immune from the state charges of owning or using a machine gun, independent of federal law to possess (subsection 7) or manufacture (subsection 6) machine guns.

This is, of course, not to say a dishwasher in search of sparkling clean dishes is immune from federal charges for same.

I'm looking specificly at the private manufacture for one's own ownership, possession, and use, not engaging the commerce in Class III weapons on the open market.

It just seems that IC 35-47-5-10(8) is so vague and open ended as to provide a loophole big enough to drive a fully loaded Fast & Furious big rig through.

 

[joshualee49]

Cathy - I have no idea the answer to your question, but I have to say that your posts are some of my favorite to read on this board. Have you ever considered writing a book? Your writing style is both intellectual and entertaining.

Hope you get the answer to your question!

 

[alfahornet]

I'm looking specificly at the private manufacture for one's own ownership, possession, and use, not engaging the commerce in Class III weapons on the open market.

It just seems that IC 35-47-5-10(8) is so vague and open ended as to provide a loophole big enough to drive a fully loaded Fast & Furious big rig through.

I realize this does not address your question as to the state statutes but regardless of what the state says, federal law prohibits the private manufactures unless you're a licenses FFL 07/SOT. Regardless of your 'intent' or whether any inter-commerce comes into play, BATFE will charge you federally. I like you're interpretation of the state statute but it still leads to a free stay at club fed.

That though brings me to wonder, how often does that state statute come into play. I am just thinking that regardless of what is going (unless it is a very serious violent felony) the feds will probably take over if an 'illegal' MG is involved. I would love to see some numbers of state convictions.

 

[xryan.jacksonx]

Even lacking the dish soap, you could claim that you are engaged in the use of the fabric known as denim for the lawful purpose of wearing pants.

So hypothetically standing naked in your own house with a machine gun is illegal as you wouldn't meet any of the criteria from the last section.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[CathyInBlue]

So hypothetically standing naked in your own house with a machine gun is illegal as you wouldn't meet any of the criteria from the last section.

It would just shift the pertinent material/substance/device to something in the skin care/personal hygiene regime. For that matter, why can't the device in question be the machine gun itself?

 

[xryan.jacksonx]

Another exception in the code to the prohibition is "Persons lawfully engaged in the display, testing, or use of fireworks."

I was an intern for the House Republicans in 2011. I got to see how out of it some of the legislators really are (on both sides). I can't imagine how something like this would have made it into law, but I can't say it surprises me based on my experience.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I think this has been discussed before and the conclusion was that nobody is willing to be the test case.



Feel free to discuss again... I really enjoy these "law" type questions...

 

[inccwchris]

I drive a dump truck that transports mining, agricultural and construction material. Technically I think I'm good on three counts. Now to go find a Ma Deuce to mount to my hood.......

 

[tomaustin]

it has always been interesting to me that folks want to

circumvent the onetime payment of $200.00 and being a good citizen.
you want to own these weapons, come on board...the process works and, yes, it is slow, but it will reward you with the ownership of a special piece of our interest in weapons.........

 

[CountryBoy19]

circumvent the onetime payment of $200.00 and being a good citizen.
you want to own these weapons, come on board...the process works and, yes, it is slow, but it will reward you with the ownership of a special piece of our interest in weapons.........

What are you talking about?

#1, unless I've mis-read your post, it isn't even relevant to this discussion

#2, unless I'm unaware, when it comes to transferable automatic weapons, it isn't just the $200 transfer tax... it is a large cash outlay just to purchase one seeing as the prices are often more than 10X as much as their post-sample counter-parts.

#3, I don't think anybody is trying to circumvent anything, this discussion is about a lesser known portion of Indiana code that "appears" to make it legal for

Persons lawfully engaged in the manufacture, transportation, distribution, use or possession of any material, substance, or device for the sole purpose of industrial, agricultural, mining, construction, educational, or any other lawful use.

to be able to purchase and possess full-auto weapons...

 

[downzero]

Regardless of your 'intent' or whether any inter-commerce comes into play, BATFE will charge you federally.

The BATFE can't charge you with anything. The Fifth Amendment requires grand jury indictments in criminal cases.

 

[alfahornet]

The BATFE can't charge you with anything. The Fifth Amendment requires grand jury indictments in criminal cases.

I am not going to get into an argument on wheter BATFE can charge your or not. However when an assistant US attorney presents evidence that you have an illegal machine gun to a federal grand jury or judge, they will likely find reason to charge you regardless of state law. I am not a lawyer, and do not give legal advice.

 

[CathyInBlue]

To be clear, I would have every expectation that if I manufactured a Class III device in my shop, I would get every federal alphabet agency crawling up my colon with a microscope and prosecuting me on every count they could find. My original intent was to explore the state law on this issue.

The issue of personal manufacture of Class III devices for personal use that are ultimately transferrable in accordance with federal regulation, though a worthy subject for discussion in its own right, is a subject for another thread.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The BATFE can't charge you with anything. The Fifth Amendment requires grand jury indictments in criminal cases

My original intent was to explore the state law on this issue.

So, what the beef, chief? I don't understand the question.

Could you restate it?

 

[downzero]

I am not going to get into an argument on wheter BATFE can charge your or not. However when an assistant US attorney presents evidence that you have an illegal machine gun to a federal grand jury or judge, they will likely find reason to charge you regardless of state law. I am not a lawyer, and do not give legal advice.

There's no argument. The answer is no.

 

[bigz82]

Where can u shoot a full auto or bump or burst fire?