Legality of reassembling a de-milled gun

[CarmelHP]

IMO thats an extreme case where the manufacturer screwed up and didn't design into their rebuild a way to prevent FA restoration. Things like sear blocks, and different bolt or bolt carriers are used in lots of rifles to prevent full auto fire of the semi-auto versions, and it looks like nothing of that nature was done to those M14s.

You base that assertion upon....?

If you want to get down to it, it wouldn't take much time to turn about any AK back into a full auto weapon. Drill a couple holes, machine a slot in a rail, install the old trigger group, and maybe weld a tab on the bolt carrier. That thats any AK built on a new receiver even. Most all of them have things done to help make it difficult for restoration to full auto, but nothing is done for a full prevention.

They focused on whether it was originally a machinegun before being demilled.

 

[Clay]

Like I said before, all of my knowledge on this kind of stuff lies primarily with AKs. As Im sure you know, most of them are rebuilt on new receivers, but some of them (mostly milled receiver versions) are rebuilt on their original receivers being welded back together. A lot of this info comes straight from a SOT who rebuilds them in semi-auto configuaration.

My assumption in the case of this M14 is that when the manufacturer made the weapon they reused all of the original parts and didnt make any modifications to eliminate the possibility of full auto fire. Obviously they did something different or Springfield and Fulton wouldn't be churning out M1As to this day. Plus, it only took about 2 hours according to that court document to return a similar example to FA ability with simple hand tools.

Heck, right now you can go to apexgunparts.com and buy original Romanian full auto AK receivers that have been crushed by Apex. They even have an approval letter from the BATFE that this method was approved, and these are no longer machine guns. Guys have been buying these receivers, welding up the 3rd hole, and the sear slot in the rail, then bending them back into a receiver and building guns on them.

I guess my point is there are ways to do it, there have to be, because people are doing it all the time by welding original full auto guns back together. Once a machine gun always a machine gun only applies to a gun. Once its cut up to BATFE specs, its is just a pile of parts in the eyes of the BATFE. This is also probably why their spec to cut up a machine gun has changed a few times over the years as well. No more saw cuts, and specific places that have to be torched out and destroyed.

 

[Eddie]

IMO thats an extreme case where the manufacturer screwed up and didn't design into their rebuild a way to prevent FA restoration. Things like sear blocks, and different bolt or bolt carriers are used in lots of rifles to prevent full auto fire of the semi-auto versions, and it looks like nothing of that nature was done to those M14s.

If you want to get down to it, it wouldn't take much time to turn about any AK back into a full auto weapon. Drill a couple holes, machine a slot in a rail, install the old trigger group, and maybe weld a tab on the bolt carrier. That thats any AK built on a new receiver even. Most all of them have things done to help make it difficult for restoration to full auto, but nothing is done for a full prevention.

Kind of what I was thinking. Did you notice that one of the cases they relied on in making their ruling was based on spending 8 hours in a machine shop with a skilled machinist?

 

[Clay]

Kind of what I was thinking. Did you notice that one of the cases they relied on in making their ruling was based on spending 8 hours in a machine shop with a skilled machinist?

yeah, that was great wasn't it?!

Now put a 'normal person' in that shop and you will end up with a broken rifle and 10 broken machines

 

[Eddie]

yeah, that was great wasn't it?!

Now put a 'normal person' in that shop and you will end up with a broken rifle and 10 broken machines

Exactly what I was thinking. To me, something that can be "readily restored" means I could carry it around as a semi-auto, but if I decided to commit a crime with it I could step into a bathroom and in a few minutes convert it to full auto. If a skilled person with a machine shop is required that almost makes a block of solid steel the equivalent of an automatic weapon since given enough time the skilled machinist could build one.

 

[451_Detonics]

Then how can we get imported AK variants, Galils, CETMES, FALs, etc? They were all select fire once.

We don't import those...we import kits. The ATF in those cases consider the receiver to be the machinegun and as they bring in the parts without a receiver they are not importing firearms.

 

[CarmelHP]

I guess my point is there are ways to do it, there have to be, because people are doing it all the time by welding original full auto guns back together. Once a machine gun always a machine gun only applies to a gun. Once its cut up to BATFE specs, its is just a pile of parts in the eyes of the BATFE. This is also probably why their spec to cut up a machine gun has changed a few times over the years as well. No more saw cuts, and specific places that have to be torched out and destroyed.

That's a big assumption. When it's cut up, it's a hunk of metal, but when remilled, it's not. I wouldn't stake my freedom on it in the 6th Circuit (or 7th Circuit for that matter, which we're in, based on their precedents).

 

[Clay]

thats very true, and something to consider for sure.

One other difference between your case, and what Im familiar with (and its a big difference) is the AKs that people weld back together dont usually have enough receiver left to make a new rifle. People usually have to take "stubs" or blank pieces of steel, shape them to fit about 1/2 the length of the receiver on each side, and then weld those in. So everything from the backside of the front trunnion, to the front side of the rear trunnion is new. Basically everyplace that has the naughty bits in it, is new metal.

but either way, definitely something to consider.