Legalization of Marijuana?

[Ziggidy]

Controlled substances are abused. Alcohol is abused by children. Prescription drugs abused by patients, doctors and others. Although many look to both as a "weekend" getaway", many never stop to get off the party line (as mentioned). We have difficulty controlling what is allegedly already controlled and we certainly cannot control the end users.

Why on earth should we add fuel to the already uncontrolled fire? Why are we, by legalizing this, actually inviting people to join the party - knowing full well, many many will get caught up in the never ending party....of abuse and addiction?

I believe we need to make it harder to obtain drugs and alcohol rather than adding to the menu.

 

[Ziggidy]

Wouldn't that logic take you to a place of banning big gulps as well though?

OK, we'll ban 20oz sodas but here ya go, have a joint instead.......

 

[rosejm]

So, if I understand correctly so far:
There are some people who choose to do illegal and irresponsible things. But the solution is to ban and criminalize the possession of the items they use outright.








Now replace those "items" in this discussion with firearms. Sounds a lot like the same message the other side is spouting about firearms. (2A rights argument aside)

Does the abuse of the few, outweigh the responsible use by the many? Won't they simply find another substance/weapon to abuse improperly?

 

[ATOMonkey]

Social engineering... You gotta love it.

Step 1 - Make something illegal.

Step 2 - Create task force to fight the black market and organized crime you just created.

Step 3 - Make it more illegaler

Step 4 - Spend even more money on task force to fight growing black market and organized crime.

At least when they banned booze the characters in the drama were better. Where is our Capone and Ness? The prohibition on all things pharmaceutical is not only failing, but it's boring to watch as well.

 

[Jludo]

OK, we'll ban 20oz sodas but here ya go, have a joint instead.......

The point was if we are going to ban one thing for possible detrimental health effects, why not the other?

 

[Jludo]

Social engineering... You gotta love it.

Step 1 - Make something illegal.

Step 2 - Create task force to fight the black market and organized crime you just created.

Step 3 - Make it more illegaler

Step 4 - Spend even more money on task force to fight growing black market and organized crime.

At least when they banned booze the characters in the drama were better. Where is our Capone and Ness? The prohibition on all things pharmaceutical is not only failing, but it's boring to watch as well.

Dunno, Narcos on Netflix was pretty good...

 

[drillsgt]

At least if they make it legal at the Fed level then many gunowners won't have to lie on the 4473 anymore.

 

[ATOMonkey]

The only thing prohibition has done is make my life more difficult.

Here's a fun riddle to figure out. My son is prescribed a controlled substance (amphetamine). In good ole Indiana, you can only get a 30 day supply, and you can only re-fill that script every 30 days. It takes 2 weeks for the pharmacy to order the meds, and they can't order the meds until I bring them a script. So, you tell me how my son is being helped by this law.

In the meantime, people have come up with ways to get around meth laws, through straw purchases, or just buying it from Mexicans, and have come up with more efficient ways to cook small batches. People are just as high as ever, while I get to play this stupid song and dance with the pharmacy and the insurance company every 30 days, because heaven forbid I bring my script in a day early.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Dunno, Narcos on Netflix was pretty good...

Yeah, but the protagonist doesn't get enough ink. Where is my Eliot Ness?

 

[Ziggidy]

So, if I understand correctly so far:
There are some people who choose to do illegal and irresponsible things. But the solution is to ban and criminalize the possession of the items they use outright.








Now replace those "items" in this discussion with firearms. Sounds a lot like the same message the other side is spouting about firearms. (2A rights argument aside)

Does the abuse of the few, outweigh the responsible use by the many? Won't they simply find another substance/weapon to abuse improperly?

Comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Ziggidy]

The only thing prohibition has done is make my life more difficult.

Here's a fun riddle to figure out. My son is prescribed a controlled substance (amphetamine). In good ole Indiana, you can only get a 30 day supply, and you can only re-fill that script every 30 days. It takes 2 weeks for the pharmacy to order the meds, and they can't order the meds until I bring them a script. So, you tell me how my son is being helped by this law.

In the meantime, people have come up with ways to get around meth laws, through straw purchases, or just buying it from Mexicans, and have come up with more efficient ways to cook small batches. People are just as high as ever, while I get to play this stupid song and dance with the pharmacy and the insurance company every 30 days, because heaven forbid I bring my script in a day early.

Personally I would check with a different pharmacy. The problem you have, as I see it, is the pharmacy will not keep that in stock. The pharmacy can, if they want, order the meds and monitor the distribution of that controlled med. Another words, have it in stock but not issue it to you until the due date.

Sometimes the difficulty is not with the law but rather the pharmacy AND/OR the pharmacist on duty. Again, check with different pharmacies.

BTW, are you angry with the law, the mexican cartels, the pharmacy or the pharmacist? The insurance company really has nothing to do with the distribution of the drug beyond authorizing its approval and distribution date / frequency. If they were more lenient and a situation occurred, they could be liable. They are covering their butts.

 

[Jludo]

Comparing apples and oranges.

In that we like apples on this forum and don't want to see them banned. Some don't like oranges though so those should be banned?

 

[ATOMonkey]

Personally I would check with a different pharmacy. The problem you have, as I see it, is the pharmacy will not keep that in stock. The pharmacy can, if they want, order the meds and monitor the distribution of that controlled med. Another words, have it in stock but not issue it to you until the due date.

Sometimes the difficulty is not with the law but rather the pharmacy AND/OR the pharmacist on duty. Again, check with different pharmacies.

BTW, are you angry with the law, the mexican cartels, the pharmacy or the pharmacist? The insurance company really has nothing to do with the distribution of the drug beyond authorizing its approval and distribution date / frequency. If they were more lenient and a situation occurred, they could be liable. They are covering their butts.

I am angry with the law that forces me to into an untenable scheduling problem. I'm angry with the law that creates cartels by opening black markets, through restricted legal sale. I'm angry with the pharmacy and/or pharmacist for not working with me for fear of running aground of some law, which may or may not exist and is too convoluted to understand if it did exist.

Where insurance comes in is this. If I lose track of the days and come in on the 29th day and ask them to fill my script, they will bill the insurance, then find out I'm a day early. Insurance denies the claim, but wait, there's more! Now that insurance has denied payment, when I come in on the 30th day to pick it up, they charge me $300 instead of $50. Then I get to call my prescription provider who has to raise a case number for the help desk that the pharmacy gets to call to clear the denial, so they can run it again. It's a real fun way for all of us to spend about 45 minutes.

Now, could I get around all of this by having my doc prescribe twice the dosage concentration and only giving him half? Yes, but that would be unethical and I would never do anything of the sort.

Restricting drug access to people like me, does nothing to restrict the access of the tweaker who is cooking meth in the trunk of his car. All it does is make my life miserable once a month.

 

[Ziggidy]

I am angry with the law that forces me to into an untenable scheduling problem. I'm angry with the law that creates cartels by opening black markets, through restricted legal sale. I'm angry with the pharmacy and/or pharmacist for not working with me for fear of running aground of some law, which may or may not exist and is too convoluted to understand if it did exist.

Where insurance comes in is this. If I lose track of the days and come in on the 29th day and ask them to fill my script, they will bill the insurance, then find out I'm a day early. Insurance denies the claim, but wait, there's more! Now that insurance has denied payment, when I come in on the 30th day to pick it up, they charge me $300 instead of $50. Then I get to call my prescription provider who has to raise a case number for the help desk that the pharmacy gets to call to clear the denial, so they can run it again. It's a real fun way for all of us to spend about 45 minutes.

Now, could I get around all of this by having my doc prescribe twice the dosage concentration and only giving him half? Yes, but that would be unethical and I would never do anything of the sort.

Restricting drug access to people like me, does nothing to restrict the access of the tweaker who is cooking meth in the trunk of his car. All it does is make my life miserable once a month.

1) again I say check into different pharmacies
2) the law controlling your drug will not stop the mexican cartel

I do not discredit your frustration. It's real. I truly believe it can be managed better by checking into different pharmacy options. Working with the insurance and asking how they recommend it be handled. Not that you have not, but I certainly would not give up seeking a different avenue.

Good luck.

 

[Ziggidy]

In that we like apples on this forum and don't want to see them banned. Some don't like oranges though so those should be banned?

I think you know better. There is a difference.

 

[Jludo]

I think you know better. There is a difference.

I really don't know better, you use a firearm for various things and enjoy owning it. Some don't understand why you'd ever want a gun, only see the carnage that comes from gun homicides and thinks they should all be banned.

 

[Trigger Time]

I think govt needs to get out of peoples lives. If people want to be homeless or make bad decisions that put them there then so be it.
If people want to abuse drugs or alcohol and use very bad drugs at all then so be it. I wont be saving them with narcan, let them kill themselves.
The government is in way too many things it was never supposed to be and our country is screwed up because of it.
Same with these stupid smoking bans.
Hell not to long ago I was in another state and they had dry counties. Couldnt buy any beer anywhere but literally a 5 minute trip down the road and you could. Or everyone was proud to tell me about the local moonshiner they use. Stupid laws dont work.

 

[Trigger Time]

Also i think its cute that people still believe that people follow laws. The majority of the people who would abuse these substances aren't going to follow any law anyways
They are already using drugs. Or have guns and not legally allowed to do so. Laws do not prevent crimes.
Also employers can still say no drugs at work even if its legal. Thats a work policy.

 

[MindfulMan]

I think govt needs to get out of peoples lives. If people want to be homeless or make bad decisions that put them there then so be it.
If people want to abuse drugs or alcohol and use very bad drugs at all then so be it. I wont be saving them with narcan, let them kill themselves.
The government is in way too many things it was never supposed to be and our country is screwed up because of it.
Same with these stupid smoking bans.
Hell not to long ago I was in another state and they had dry counties. Couldnt buy any beer anywhere but literally a 5 minute trip down the road and you could. Or everyone was proud to tell me about the local moonshiner they use. Stupid laws dont work.

The text I highlighted in bold says it all ..... YES, the government needs to get out of our lives.

 

[HoughMade]

I really don't know better, you use a firearm for various things and enjoy owning it. Some don't understand why you'd ever want a gun, only see the carnage that comes from gun homicides and thinks they should all be banned.

Well, one is protected by the Constitution, the other isn't, so one legally one can be banned, the other can't. There is a difference.

The issue is the wisdom of the ban which is legal.

Oh and the alcohol prohibition versus pot is inapposite as well, but closer.

Make your case for pot. Period. The metaphors and comparisons are all assailable.

Just make the case for legal pot and we'll go from there.

Oh and "I think government should stay out of people's lives" me too....but that isn't going to win the day either. Make the case for legal pot.