LEO encounter in New Castle

[kingnereli]

I went to visit my parents in New Castle today. They live in a division of townhouses with the front porch being a common area with the neighboring apartment. While sitting on the porch talking with my father a patrol car pulled up parallel to the curb and watched us for probably two or three minutes. My handgun was clearly visible to him as I was OCing and the gun was pointed towards the street. Well, not pointed towards the street but my gun side was angled as to be visible from the street. We continued to talk as normal while the leo watched us. He then waved at me and I waved back. Then he pulled away.

I'm not sure if there was a man with a gun call or if he was just in the neighborhood and noticed. I can only assume he was watching us to judge our demeanor or to look for any suspicious behavior. Or maybe his presence there had nothing to do with us at all. I thought he was going to eventually get out and at least check my LTCH. He was clearly looking our way and left when I waved back at him. Not a really exciting encounter as I wasn't face planted or had my gun confiscated but it was interesting nonetheless.

 

[ddenny5]

My dad is a retired New Caste Police Officer and most of them are nice to LTCH holders.

 

[kingnereli]

My dad is a retired New Caste Police Officer and most of them are nice to LTCH holders.

Don't you mean my uncle is a retired New Castle Police Officer...?

 

[Boilers]

I grew up near and around one NC Police Chief and his family. Close family friends. Nice guy and family.

I lived two doors away (later) from Henry Sheriff. (coincidentally his foreclosed home just recently was bought; I was in it and met the buyers)

And a close family member of mine was Chief for many years.

I'd be surprised if you encounter harsh treatment.

 

[kingnereli]

I grew up near and around one NC Police Chief and his family. Close family friends. Nice guy and family.

I lived two doors away (later) from Henry Sheriff. (coincidentally his foreclosed home just recently was bought; I was in it and met the buyers)

And a close family member of mine was Chief for many years.

I'd be surprised if you encounter harsh treatment.

I really have no proof that he was even there for me. He just watched me, waved and left.

 

[Boilers]

Understood.
What part of town, if you're willing to share? You can be general, non-specific. Like near Race and 12th or so.
(I used to deliver papers on Race and that general area)

 

[kingnereli]

Understood.
What part of town, if you're willing to share? You can be general, non-specific. Like near Race and 12th or so.
(I used to deliver papers on Race and that general area)

Stonegate

 

[Boilers]

ok. I grew near there, and when that was being built. Had cub scout den meetings there. in the field East of there, we found an old well, just on the other side of the four square church's property.

Seems like the right environment for a concerned/nosey neighbor to see the gun and call the cops. Where does NC city line end? I thought Stonegate was just outside of the city limits. According to the shading on Google Maps Stonegate is included. But I thought in the early 70s it was NOT in New Caste. Not that it is germane to this discussion.

I made a quick map of two wells that we 'found' as kids.
New Castle Indiana wells - Google Maps

 

[kingnereli]

ok. I grew near there, and when that was being built. Had cub scout den meetings there. in the field East of there, we found an old well, just on the other side of the four square church's property.

Seems like the right environment for a concerned/nosey neighbor to see the gun and call the cops. Where does NC city line end? I thought Stonegate was just outside of the city limits. According to the shading on Google Maps Stonegate is included. But I thought in the early 70s it was NOT in New Caste. Not that it is germane to this discussion.

I made a quick map of two wells that we 'found' as kids.
New Castle Indiana wells - Google Maps

Yeah, my father said he gets asked who the guy is with the gun that visits on weekends?

As far as I know it is in city limits. I grew up there though I am not old enough to remember when it was being built.

I may go looking for those wells assuming it isn't on private property.

 

[ddenny5]

Don't you mean my uncle is a retired New Castle Police Officer...?

Yes your Uncle too.

 

[55spartan]

nosy neighbor call I am sure, look for a neighbor's car with an Obama sticker on it, that will be him

 

[Integraholic]

Also, if you were on private property then you'd have no need for your LTCH. Probably why he didn't get out to check it.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Also, if you were on private property then you'd have no need for your LTCH. Probably why he didn't get out to check it.

Actually, the "private property" exception for the need of an LTCH only applies to your (with you being the gun and property possessor) property.

IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
(b) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body in the person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place of business.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.326-1987, SEC.1; P.L.195-2003, SEC.6; P.L.98-2004, SEC.155; P.L.118-2007, SEC.35.

In order to not need an LTCH, it has to be your house or your business. You can still be charged with carrying a handgun without a license if you are on someone else's property.

 

[DesertDoc]

Well sounds like the officer did the right thing. I live in New Castle and I am firends with several of their LEO's. Most of those guys are good honest cops that dont give people any trouble unless they have a reaosn.

 

[finity]

Actually, the "private property" exception for the need of an LTCH only applies to your (with you being the gun and property possessor) property.

In order to not need an LTCH, it has to be your house or your business. You can still be charged with carrying a handgun without a license if you are on someone else's property.

While that may be technically correct, do you really think that any LEO would enter onto someones private property to check to ensure that everyone there who has handled a handgun has a LTCH? Been any raids on private shooting ranges/clubs in recent memory?

I would think that doing something like that would turn out badly for the cop, especially if the person had permission from the homeowner/renter.

If someone who is visiting me ends up using my gun to defend themselves or me (could happen) from a home invasion & doesn't have a LTCH they could be charged with carrying without a license? I guess I better tell my 18 YO son (who lives with me rent-free so it's not 'his' property) to not touch my gun even if he thinks he might have to defend himself or he can be convicted of a felony since we live within 1000 feet of a school.

Somehow I don't think that is the intent of the law.

 

[esrice]

If someone who is visiting me ends up using my gun to defend themselves or me (could happen) from a home invasion & doesn't have a LTCH they could be charged with carrying without a license?

In the OPs case, he was carrying his gun on his father's porch. I assume the OP does not live at the same house (otherwise why would he 'visit'?).

The law is pretty clear that you can only have a gun without a permit at your own house, not someone else's. (see Frank_N_Stein's post)

In the scenario you describe above, where a visitor is using YOUR gun in YOUR home, I'm sure all would indeed be well.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

While that may be technically correct, do you really think that any LEO would enter onto someones private property to check to ensure that everyone there who has handled a handgun has a LTCH? Been any raids on private shooting ranges/clubs in recent memory?

I would think that doing something like that would turn out badly for the cop, especially if the person had permission from the homeowner/renter.

If someone who is visiting me ends up using my gun to defend themselves or me (could happen) from a home invasion & doesn't have a LTCH they could be charged with carrying without a license? I guess I better tell my 18 YO son (who lives with me rent-free so it's not 'his' property) to not touch my gun even if he thinks he might have to defend himself or he can be convicted of a felony since we live within 1000 feet of a school.

Somehow I don't think that is the intent of the law.

Your son lives in the same house as you, so technically it is his property. He may not be the owner/leaseholder, but he resides there so it is his dwelling and would not need a LTCH to have/handle a gun inside the house or outside on the property. According to Indiana Code, if your son (or another visitor) did not live there he would need a LTCH. Is an LEO going to just walk up in your house uninvited to check if he has one? Highly unlikely in today's society but when/if the gun banners have their way....

I'm not sure of the intent/reasoning of the law to prevent non-LTCH holders from possessing a handgun inside someone else's home, but I have seen murder suspects charged with carrying a handgun without a license because the murder occurred inside a home that wasn't theirs. Aside from that scenario, I have never heard of anyone being charged with carrying a handgun without a license unless they were a convicted felon or domestic batterer and weren't legally allowed to have the handgun because of the conviction.

 

[finity]

In the OPs case, he was carrying his gun on his father's porch. I assume the OP does not live at the same house (otherwise why would he 'visit'?).

The law is pretty clear that you can only have a gun without a permit at your own house, not someone else's. (see Frank_N_Stein's post)

In the scenario you describe above, where a visitor is using YOUR gun in YOUR home, I'm sure all would indeed be well.

I guess my challenge to them would then be "prove who's gun it is".

It's the same as taking someone to the range without a LTCH. If I (who has a LTCH) take "control" of the gun in order to transport it from someones private property to someone elses private property & the "owner" happens to be with me there's pretty much nothing LEO can do. They don't know who the owner of the gun is. The "owner" could have just given me the gun. I will give it back later when he is back on his property.

My only point is the inanity of the law. It can't be enforced. It can only be an add-on charge for someone who does not have the property owners permission to be there in the first place.

I kind of doubt someone who gets charged with home invasion or burglary are going to be deterred by adding a carrying without a license charge.

 

[bigus_D]

...
In the scenario you describe above, where a visitor is using YOUR gun in YOUR home, I'm sure all would indeed be well.

I agree, all would be well... that is until the SHTF scenario comes up (lets say some dude on PCP breaks in), and your need to use your gun. If the police come out after your fired your gun, outside of your property, without an LTCH, you may have a little trouble.

 

[public servant]

I guess my challenge to them would then be "prove who's gun it is".

It's the same as taking someone to the range without a LTCH. If I (who has a LTCH) take "control" of the gun in order to transport it from someones private property to someone elses private property & the "owner" happens to be with me there's pretty much nothing LEO can do. They don't know who the owner of the gun is.

I guess the big question would be...if the LEO asked you "who's gun is that"...would you lie about it? Surely not...