Loading your defensive ammo pros and cons

[yosemitesam]

As with loading your own match, plinking, and hunting loads loading your own defensive ammo will ensure that your rounds are consistent, have enough velocity, and cycle well in your firearm. However it can make things difficult for you in the event that you shoot someone with them. In my experience in defensive shootings the detective let me speak for 30 minuets about. "What happened" and then asked almost 3 hours about the ammo and handgun I was using. A glock 29 that was factory by slide and frame only combined with hand loaded critical defense bullets I pulled from factory 40S&W and seated into a hot 10 mm case. Not only that the shoot went bad. It took 11 hits to bring down my attacker. Scoring 3 head shots off the bat amounted to little when later I found out the heroin in his system was enought to OD 6 adults. So I began to attack the spine and landed 8 more upper torso hits that ended the fight in my favor. After I was walked out by IMPD and taken to the interview room I found out my attacker was also an African American (I'm white) In a post Trevon Martin world I was quickly seeing my case go down hill. It took 3 long weeks for the deputy prosecutor to decide I did nothing wrong and was free of any charges. After personally talking to Massad Ayoob about the case I found out I did a lot of little things that added up to what could have been a nightmare for me in a criminal trial. I would suggest to you that if there is a defensive load you like custom to your gun have a licensed manufacture make it for you. Should you need it the load data can be recreated for testing. The ones you make won't be admissible in court at all. Also usually a jury thinks little about ammo that was purchased from a shop and thinks more about the evil demons you personally loaded for bear in your home. Just thought I would share. Stay alert, stay armed, stay alive my friends.

 

[Mark 1911]

I always use store bought ammo for personal protection and only use reloads for range use. I never really thought about the legal aspects before. My reasoning has more to do with confidence that the ammo will perform when needed. Although I have found little if no difference in reliability in my reloaded ammo, I still have more confidence in factory ammo for defensive use. Maybe its psychological, but I always use top quality factory ammo for carry.

Glad you survived to share your story with us - that's all that matters. Thanks for sharing a story I hope never to experience firsthand.

 

[yosemitesam]

10mm is a funny load at times. If you seet too long it won't feed and too short you generate unnecessary pressure. I searched for 2 years for THE factory 10mm load I could rely on. Problem is not many people carry a 10mm so the factory defensive rounds are slim to non. I found making my own was about the only way around that because 40S&W bullets were vastly more common for defensive purposes. I did my homework and liked the Critial Defense the best. It worked well. Expansion was great on the body hits but the head shots were in and out with little deformation to the bullet. They all imbedded into the wall 30 feet behind him and were recovered in good shape (which is bad) After this I went to carring 44mag for piece of mind. I'm glad you find my post helpful. My goal in life is to maybe prevent someone from going through what I did. Defensive rounds, guns, and training is one of few things I hold sacred.

 

[Mark 1911]

Almost 2 years ago I ordered a custom 1911 from Wilson Combat (which I am still waiting for and hope to receive and post pics of soon).

My first preference was to have it made in 10mm. But for various reasons, including ammo availability but also design issues of building a 10mm on a 1911 frame, and availability of the required parts at WC (barrel, recoil spring, etc..) I decided to stick with the .45 acp.

 

[GNRPowdeR]

The basic statements I've heard from the lawyers / prosecutors / firearms instructors when asking about the ammunition I should use in my defensive firearms can be rolled into one sentence... If you carry something from a factory, it's less able to be used against you by the prosecution.

Something similar when it comes to the firearm modifications... If you can buy it from the factory in a similar configuration, then it becomes less effective for the prosecution.

 

[yosemitesam]

Yeah 10mm has a lot of issues. I've gotten away from it as far as defensive purposes. But I've also gone to revolvers as again piece of mind comes to play knowing they won't jam. Also I get a lot of true power from 44mag. I take my carry gun hunting, to IDPA/USPSA matches, and to classes. This round does it all for me. And every year I hit a deer and it drops right there I have affirmation that should lighting strike twice I'm going to be ok. Please do post a picture of your WC1911 I loves those guns. Such works of art they are.

 

[yosemitesam]

You're correct. My big hang up was a 3.5lb "GHOST" reset trigger. They asked "why ghost? Because it kills?" They want to know why you had what you did. Any modification in the left wing mind makes the gun more deadly even if it's just a night site or something. There are stores that are considered factory loaders that will make custom ammo for you though.

 

[M67]

After this gimmiky mall ninja BS

Home of RIP Ammo | G2 Research

I'll still carry some of my own handloads. My 41 mag through the woods for coyotes or meth heads (same with 357) or when I used to carry my 1911 with FMJ ammo it was with my handloads in it.

During the ammo shortage last year for 9mm I carried Black Talons because that's what I had and I couldn't find 9mm hollow points. I could see that evil black coated bullet causing issues even though they were never teflon coated.

But, I carry a 9mm most of the time any more and have no reason to buy 9mm hollow points and reload them, so I'll stick with store bought there


Glad things eventually worked out for you

 

[yosemitesam]

Many thanks. Though I will tell you I have also used FMJ in a defensive shooting. It didn't work well. Even though it was a 230gr 45ACP with a well placed breast bone shot it went right through and the guy ran about. 60 yards after that. Good expanding hollowing points with a lot of weight and speed is the way to go in my opinion.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It took 3 long weeks for the deputy prosecutor to decide I did nothing wrong and was free of any charges.

So, in the end it was legally irrelevant what sort of ammo you used. 3 weeks isn't unusual in the slightest, I'm surprised a grand jury wasn't called. Do you remember who the detective was? Approximately when was this?

 

[VERT]

Yosemite you were involved in 2 self defense shootings? Wow! Luck is not on your side, or maybe it is since you prevailed. You mentioned needing a high round count from the Glock to end the fight, so why did you decide on a revolver that less capacity? 10mm is a very capable cartridge and your Glock obviously functioned. How is it that the detective came to the question of the trigger modifications? There are no obvious features which would have identified a change in trigger bar.

The guns I carry are factory OEM parts and ammo in the gun is factory unless I am going to and from the range.

 

[Stschil]

OP, I don't think that your handloads were the reason it took 3 weeks for the Official SD determination. More likely, the Prosector and the PD were doing a proper investigation which, in the politically charged atmosphere of today, is even more important. Nobody wants to be put in the same position as the PD and prosecutors office were in after Zimmerman/Martin incident. In the end, it sounds like your case was a justified shoot and there evidence enough to back that up. Just as an aside, do you really think a prosecutor would try to paint your hand loads as extraordinarily lethal, super max people killing machines when it took 11 hits to stop the attacker?

In addition, Tox reports do not come back in 10 minutes like they do on TV. My 21 y/o nephew suffered and extreme reaction to a medication given to him by a friend for a migraine and his heart stopped. He was found dead in his dorm room the next morning (He had a prescription for a similar med, but had left them at home. Yeah, it was a dumb move but there was no malicitious intent) it took over a month for the Toxicology reports to come back before the ME could make a final, official determination of COD. By that time, Eric's life had already been celebrated, he was cremated, and our family was beginning the healing process, however, the young man who shared his meds' future still hung in the balance.

It takes time to resolve any case, especially one that involves the death of someone at the hands of another. 3 weeks, in the grand scheme of things, is relatively short in my thoughts even though I know you personally felt like it was an eternity in limbo, waiting for the official 'no charges to be filed' determination.

 

[yosemitesam]

2 handgun shootings I've been in were in Iraq. I had a 9mm issued and acquired a glock 21 from an Iraqi that was no longer in need. The FMJ rounds will kill but in my findings don't stop a person quickly. The detective asked because of the KKM barrel that was on there and asked what else was done. I volunteered the infoation. The detective was very nice but asked a lot of questions. This was Sept 30 2012 on the south side

 

[yosemitesam]

And I went to a revolver for reliability. The glock always worked well it's just I figure less odds of failure with a revolver. Less capacity isn't a concern as I carry 2 44mag so I still have 12 shots available. I do not think the prosecutor would make me out to be a killer but then again I don't know him or her personally. I know nothing of their politics or stance on the 2nd Amendment.

 

[thumperdogg]

And I went to a revolver for reliability. The glock always worked well it's just I figure less odds of failure with a revolver. Less capacity isn't a concern as I carry 2 44mag so I still have 12 shots available. I do not think the prosecutor would make me out to be a killer but then again I don't know him or her personally. I know nothing of their politics or stance on the 2nd Amendment.

Seems to be a reasonable person...

"It doesn't matter if its a toy gun, or a BB gun or a real gun, if there's a reasonable belief on the clerk's part if that gun is real, then the clerk or anyone in the store is justified in using deadly force," said Deputy Prosecutor Denise Robinson.

 

[yosemitesam]

Seems to be a reasonable person...

"It doesn't matter if its a toy gun, or a BB gun or a real gun, if there's a reasonable belief on the clerk's part if that gun is real, then the clerk or anyone in the store is justified in using deadly force," said Deputy Prosecutor Denise Robinson.

not sure of that's sarcasm or not. Why the DP Robinson quote?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Seems to be a reasonable person...

"It doesn't matter if its a toy gun, or a BB gun or a real gun, if there's a reasonable belief on the clerk's part if that gun is real, then the clerk or anyone in the store is justified in using deadly force," said Deputy Prosecutor Denise Robinson.

Denise is extremely competent and I've never seen her be anything but fair.

 

[yosemitesam]

O I think you mean the DP Robinson is reasonable. That maybe given that quote. I thought maybe you meant me for carrying 2 44s I get it now

 

[yosemitesam]

At the time I just moved to Indy after 9 years in the army. I knew nothing of the elected officials here

 

[cedartop]

Yes OP there is some veiled disbelief of your story. It may be the way you write, or just the way it is coming across, but it reads like B.S.. I am not accusing you of lying, I am just voicing what many are thinking. You have to realize there are a lot of internet commandos out there. Some of us were just hoping to see a little verification as you are new here.