Local LEO won't sign Form 4

[wsenefeld]

So I purchased a Huntertown Guardian about 2 months ago and after some financial difficulties, now have the funds for my stamp. Of course, I run into another problem. After trying to set up an appointment with the Chief of Police in Thorntown, IN I am still without a signature. The officer I spoke with who wouldnt give me his name, wouldnt even give me an appointment or let me speak with the Chief of Police because he feels that, "civilians dont have a need for NFA items." I called the Boone County Sheriff Ken Cambell and got pretty much the same response. Not wanting to give up after having already spent the $$ on the suppressor, I called the NFA branch of the BATF. The NFA specialist for our district informed me that this is becoming more and more common in her area... really? That's the first I've heard of it. Her only suggestion was a trust. Great, more money. It isn't rediculous enough that I have to have a stamp for an item that barely meets any NFA criteria, now I have to spend the extra $$ on a trust... where's the lube?

Called Mr. Andrew down at Profire and he's hooking me up with a trust lawyer at a decent price. Somehow he always comes through.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

[Scutter01]

You can't shop around for a signature. You have to go to your local LEO (whoever answers a 911 call for your residence), which is probably why Sheriff Campbell refused to help. He is very pro-2A and very pro-citizen gun ownership and I find it almost inconceivable that he would tell you that "civilians don't have a need for NFA items". If your local CLEO won't sign off, you'll have to establish an NFA trust instead.

Also: Police officers are civilians. Your response should have been to ask him to give up all of his department's NFA weapons.

 

[mrjarrell]

Consult a lawyer and see if you have cause to sue the cops. If you're a proper person they have no reasonable excuse to deny you the signature. Make them pay for their denial.

 

[Classic]

Consult a lawyer and see if you have cause to sue the cops. If you're a proper person they have no reasonable excuse to deny you the signature. Make them pay for their denial.

I'm no an expert but didn't know they could deny it without cause. I thought they had to sign if you had no negatives.

 

[wsenefeld]

You can't shop around for a signature. You have to go to your local LEO (whoever answers a 911 call for your residence), which is probably why Sheriff Campbell refused to help. He is very pro-2A and very pro-citizen gun ownership and I find it almost inconceivable that he would tell you that "civilians don't have a need for NFA items". If your local CLEO won't sign off, you'll have to establish an NFA trust instead.

Also: Police officers are civilians. Your response should have been to ask him to give up all of his department's NFA weapons.

Sheriff Cambell didnt specifically say that he wouldnt sign of on it, he stated that it was out of his jurisdiction and that if the Chief of Police in Thorntown wouldnt sign off on it, he must have a good reason.

If you call 911 here you get Boone County dispatch and thats whether you live in Lebanon, in Thorntown, or out in the county.

Consult a lawyer and see if you have cause to sue the cops. If you're a proper person they have no reasonable excuse to deny you the signature. Make them pay for their denial.

When I called the NFA branch, the specialist informed me that the local LEO can choose not to sign off if he or she wishes. Nothing that forces them to sign. She said the problem is becoming more common which is why she's been suggesting trusts to everybody.

Not going to consider a lawsuit. I'd like to stay on their good side and dont feel I am monitarily "owed" anything. Its his choice not to sign off and my choice to vote for someone else come next election.

 

[bigcraig]

I call BS on Sheriff Campbell refusing to sign your form 4. I know for a fact that he will.

There must be more to your story.

 

[wsenefeld]

I call BS on Sheriff Campbell refusing to sign your form 4. I know for a fact that he will.

There must be more to your story.

I'm not in his jurisdiction and I asked him how I would go about getting it signed without the approval of the Thorntown Chief of Police. I asked about filing a complaint or getting a petition. He suggested getting a hold of Marshall Voils but insisted that the CoP must have a good reason for not signing off and pretty much blew me off.

 

[ultra...good]

I call BS on Sheriff Campbell refusing to sign your form 4. I know for a fact that he will.

There must be more to your story.

Yes, there is more. Campbell is not the Chief Law Enforcement Officer for where this guy lives.

 

[Whosyer]

Can you email the Chief directly? Maybe the hitch,is the douche answering the phone.

 

[bigcraig]

Well, here is how I would proceed.

First off, I would send a politely written letter to your CLEO, stating the following.

1) While it is a requirement for him to sign off per the ATF, there are ways to legally by-pass his "approval".

2) Also, notify him that his refusal to sign could be considered illegal with some good lawyering. (Note, Indiana is a shall issue state in regards to CCW permits, a good lawyer could make a reasonable arguement that NFA items be handled in the same regards.)

3) Do some more research, as there are folks that can do the sign-offs, not just the CLEO. (Judges for example.)

That said, you are in a tough situation, especially for something that cost so little. Only you can decide on which course of action is best for you.

 

[wsenefeld]

Just got off the phone with the Thorntown Marshall, Russ Voils. He said he would be educating the Chief of Police regarding these matters and the 3 of us have an appointment scheduled for April 9th at 1pm

 

[Destro]

try meeting with the town marshal first, don't take the deputy's word for it

 

[Bill of Rights]

Glad to see you will have this resolved. My first suggestion on being told by an officer that he would not let me talk to the chief or give me an appointment would have been to go down in person and bypass the other officers. Failing that, a nicely worded letter to the newspaper or a TV station would be my next move... They don't need to know why you want to speak to the chief, you just do.
Alternatively, put a copy of your form 4 in the mail to the chief and send it registered and marked confidential. Make sure a letter is included to let the chief know what his officers are doing.

Again, I know you got it handled via the marshal (who, if he responds to your home on a 911, would be your CLEO and can sign it himself!) I post this so that others in similar situations will have options to choose among to fix the problem.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[45calibre]

you need A chief LEO's signature, there are more than one.

Law Enforcement Certification. Item 17 must be completed for an individual transferee, unless the transferee is licensed as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer under the GCA and is a special (occupational) taxpayer under the NFA at the time of the submission of the application for transfer. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police for the transferee's city or town of residence; the Sheriff for the transferee's county of residence; the Head of the State Police for the transferee's State of residence; a State or local district attorney or prosecutor having jurisdiction in the transferee's area of residence; or another person whose certification is acceptable to the Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. If someone has specific delegated authority to sign on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by printing the Chief's, Sheriff's, or other authorized official's name and title, followed by the word "by" and the full signature and title of the delegated person. The certificate must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the application.

read https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...sign_for_the_sheriff_on_the_cleo_signoff.html

 

[MikeDVB]

you need A chief LEO's signature, there are more than one.

read https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...sign_for_the_sheriff_on_the_cleo_signoff.html

Good information, hopefully I don't face this issue in the future should I ever acquire any NFA items.

I really wish they would remove suppressors from the NFA list, it makes no sense.

 

[Echelon]

wsenefeld, check your PM.

 

[scottka]

Good information, hopefully I don't face this issue in the future should I ever acquire any NFA items.

I really wish they would remove suppressors from the NFA list, it makes no sense.

... and everything else. It's so stupid that a criminal can throw a stock on his AR pistol and make it an SBR, but a law-abiding citizen must spend $200 and half a year to do something so simple. Same goes with cutting a barrel down (either SBS or SBR). Just plain STUPID!

 

[MikeDVB]

... and everything else. It's so stupid that a criminal can throw a stock on his AR pistol and make it an SBR, but a law-abiding citizen must spend $200 and half a year to do something so simple. Same goes with cutting a barrel down (either SBS or SBR). Just plain STUPID!

It's obviously because only professional hitmen use suppressors and only criminals need to shorten their rifles and shotguns to make them easier to conceal... Right?

I mean, that's what the movies show!

 

[Aszerigan]

+1 to wsenefeld for pursuing this diplomatically and not flying off the handle. It's a bad situation to be under the jurisdiction of an anti-2A sherrif, and you played your cards right and won.

Well done, I applaud your calmness.

 

[Destro]

It's a bad situation to be under the jurisdiction of an anti-2A sherrif

I know of no other sheriff in Indiana more pro 2A then Ken Campbell.