Looking for a new handgun (9mm)

[melensdad]

A few of the guns i have been looking at:

Kimber Tactical Pro II (Its expensive, but i really need to shoot one of theses)
Para Ordinance Tac-Five (Not as expenisve as the Kimber, maybe a good option between the three)
H&K USP Expert (Maybe just the USP)

What would you suggest and why?

Well the first 2 out of your 3 choices are Colt 1911 pattern handguns and that is the type of gun that I prefer.

I own a couple Paras, never owned a Kimber but my observation of the two is that the higher grades of Kimbers are fine pistols, very much like artwork. Some friends report them as finicky when new but after they are worked out they are great guns. The Paras are more of a duty grade weapons with a little less fluff and polish.

My general observation is that the tried and true Colt 1911 type guns are easy to carry, easy to shoot and absolutely reliable if you give them modest care and cleaning. I own a dozen or so 1911s of various brands and find them to be the easiest style of pistol to shoot accurately. I've got them in 9, 38 Super and 45.

There are people who criticize 1911 pattern guns, I don't know why. They are the choice of SWAT, SEAL and SPECIAL FORCES teams, they dominate competition shooting. That says something about the guns for accuracy, reliability and ease of use under pressure. Hey, if someone else likes something else, that is good with me too. Its just my choice and I doubt you could go wrong with either the Kimber or the Para.

 

[SilentWarrior1]

I just have a problem with someone stating that Glocks aren't accurate. I have carried a Glock for the past 6 years, and I have had a quarter sized shot group in the 10/x-ring since I started shooting 9mm. I started out with a Glock 23, then decided to move to the Glock 19, due to cost and accuracy. Best decision I ever made. Granted, the "Safe-Action" trigger does take some getting used to, and any experienced shooter and instructor that the trigger pull is one of the most detrimental parts of your shot. It can make or break your shot, hands down.

My Glock is more accurate than I'll EVER be. So, I have a hard time believing that it's not user error.

FTR, I hate Berettas and their Breech faced design. I could start ranting, but that's another sermon for another time. The people I used to train on them at Atterbury know how much I hate them.

 

[duboismd]

I have been a 1911 or hi-power person for a long time. Love both. Have also had great experience with XDs. I have XDSC9 and XDC45. Right now I primarily carry the XDSC9 with Springfield's carry package. It definitely shoots point of aim with XS Big Dot sights. I think all are solid CCW weapons. Never had a Glock but hear really good things about them too. The Kimber's I've owned have needed a break in period before I felt they were reliable. The shorter barrels (3"), in my experience, are very finicky.

 

[stillwaters]

If its accuracy over carry, why not bite the bullet & invest in a machinist's wet dream?

Features on the NightHawk Lady Hawk include the following:

• Caliber: 9mm / Match Grade Crowned and Recessed Barrel
• Heinie Signature Scalloped front strap and Mainspring Housing (Front Strap and Mainspring Housing radiused to reduce grip size.)
• Nighthawk Custom Ultra-Thin Alumagrips
• Forged Carbon Steel Frame and 4.25” Slide
• Heinie Magazine Release, Tool Steel Hammer, and Sear
• Finish: Titanium Blue with Hard Chromed Controls
• Heinie Slant-Pro Straight Eight Night Sights
• Magazine well contoured for carry
• Tactical Magazine Release
• Hand Serrated Rear of Slide

MSRP: $2,895.00
You get a test target showing accuracy. You can always go for less expensive. What I like to shoot & what I carry are two different critters. Personally, I prefer a .45 to carry (Colt Defender). So you don't like wheel guns & you don't like Glocks. Howzabout tracking down a S&W 952? My last 2 cents: I've found everything about the sport of shooting to be an on-going education and have refined my thinking (as well as likes & dislikes) as I've progressed. You can't go wrong with a Browing Hi-Power, a CZ P01, or an H&K. -Maybe even track down an HK P7PSP; the folks who like those swear by them & there's a lot of used ones about. Good luck!

 

[Fenway]

MSRP: $2,895.00

 

[Scam1789]

I love my 1911. I own a Kimber TLE/RL I use it for home defense, I love shooting it, and I plan on carrying it once I get my license. I like it better than any other pistol I have fired. But like all things you can find as many opinions as you find people.

 

[Lars]

After todays class, and listening to Shay.....

I've narrowed our household handgun purchases to:

• Glocks
• Sig Sauers
• HKs

Guns I'll not be purchasing:

• KelTecs
• Khars

 

[Fenway]

BTW: How did your HK shoot today. I think I already asked you but I forget.

After todays class, and listening to Shay.....

I've narrowed our household handgun purchases to:

• Glocks
• Sig Sauers
• HKs

Guns I'll not be purchasing:

• KelTecs
• Khars

 

[Lars]

BTW: How did your HK shoot today. I think I already asked you but I forget.

Far better than I did....
only one failure. A failure to feed after the second shot fired off hand only....

I'm 99% sure I had a limp wrist on that shot...... I'm also pretty sure that's the first time I've fired a hand gun with my left hand.

 

[mosesiscarryingapdw]

I think i'm straying from a carry weapon and looking more for one that is accurate and fun to shoot at the range but with some personal home protection qualities.

A bit off the beaten path, but take a look at a CZ-75 SP-01 model. Full metal frame, night sights, 19+1 capacity, tactical rail, DA/SA with Manual Safety (standard) or DA/SA with Decocker (Tactical model). While a bit on the big side for carry, it fits your criteria perfectly for a nice range and home defense weapon. I take mine to Steel Plate matches when I can, and it's very controllable in rapid fire due to the full metal frame. This gun definitely shoots better than my own abilities, though I hope to remedy that with a Tactical Response course sometime in the near future.

Get a Streamlight TLR-1 for the tac rail and you'll be set. If you really wanted to get crazy, you could contact Angus Hobdell and have him do a Single Action conversion, which will get the trigger pull down to a nice and crisp 3.5-4 pounds - I want to send mine in for an SAO conversion once I save up for an AR-15. I've run over 5000 rounds through mine since getting mine over a year and a half ago, and it's been extremely reliable.

Probably the best place to get them around here is KS&E Guns on Pendleton Pike here in Indy, they are a CZ distributor and gave me a hell of a deal on my CZ-75 compact last year.

Don't forget the Bayonet option too!

 

[Fenway]

How reliable are CZs? Are they going to go bang every time you pull the trigger? I don't come across many people carrying them.

 

[Lars]

I know the CZ series of pistols share a lot in common with the 1911.
Lots of IDPA/USPSA/IPSC guys seem to like them.

I handled one when we were at the shop buying Pami's Sig.... It was heavy, had a stiff recoil spring, and wasn't exactly my cup of tea.

Likely a fine pistol though.

 

[mosesiscarryingapdw]

Very reliable. The only problem I have ever encountered was a 3-point jam, which happened to both my SP-01 and 75 Compact within 5 minutes of each other. I was able to quickly determine it was a mag issue and replaced the springs (but don't carry with that mag even so). My SP-01 has over 5000 rounds through it, and the 75 Compact 1000+ rounds. The SP-01's SA trigger has a bit of a break-in period, but it breaks very cleanly now - if doing slow-fire, I can tell exactly when it's going to break. I feed them mainly Winchester White Box FMJ and JHP. I ocasionally fire a mag of Gold Dots right at the end of a range session, and it eats them like a pro. They have also shot Fiocchi, Federal, and one other brand of cheap 9mm with no problems.

 

[IUGradStudent]

After todays class, and listening to Shay.....

I've narrowed our household handgun purchases to:

• Glocks
• Sig Sauers
• HKs

Guns I'll not be purchasing:

• KelTecs
• Khars

Out of curiousity what was the issue with the Kahrs? I haven't gotten to fire one yet, but I've handled and dry fired a CW9 and loved how it felt (other than the STIFF springs on it). Because of their size it seems like they'd be much more concealable than the 9mm polymer pistols (Glock, SA XD, SW MP, etc) -- was it just a reliability issue?

 

[Lars]

It could have been the weather, the gun, the shooter, or even my imagination. The Khar and KelTec did both have VERY LONG trigger resets which i'm not a fan of. I could see it being very easy to short stroke on a double tap.

I think it failed to feed on more than one occasion during the class. For a Self defense weapon, I'd really like it to go bang with a boring level of monotony.

That said, I doubt there's anything wrong with the Khar. I'm sure Pierce can shed more light on the subject than I. My only experience with that hand gun was from two lanes away during the class.

 

[melensdad]

How reliable are CZs? Are they going to go bang every time you pull the trigger? I don't come across many people carrying them.

MOST of the CZ pistols are exceptionally reliable. They make a compact pistol in both 9 and 40 called the "RAMI" and it is available in 2 configurations. Stay away from those 2 guns. Other than those, however, the CZ pistols are some of the best designed pistols on the planet. None other than Col. Jeff Cooper thought very highly of them and said they were among the finest handgun designs ever produced, rivaling the Colt 1911 pattern guns. Cooper saw all the "wondernines" and "krunchentickers" up to many of the most modern "plastic" guns. He owned, trained with and recommended 1911s, CZs and, for a short period of time, the Bren 10. Gunsite, his training academy, is pretty much Mecca for 1911 training.

 

[mosesiscarryingapdw]

He owned, trained with and recommended 1911s, CZs and, for a short period of time, the Bren 10.

VLTOR is bringing back the Bren 10: Vltor Weapon Systems introduces a Bren Ten Style Pistol

Maybe they'll get it right and not go bankrupt this time.

OP, I know that there aren't very many places to czech out CZs in the area, so if you're interested i'd be happy to let you shoot the two that I have, including the SP-01 which should fit your intended uses perfectly. Send me a PM, and maybe we can work something out, my travel schedule and budget permitting.

 

[WestSider]

With respect, most of the people (not all) that knock Kel-Tec have never owned or fired one. I have owned 2 different Kel-Tecs (P-32 and my PF-9) and I have had zero problems with either of them. I think they are great pistols for the $.

 

[Robert John Stewart]

My experience with CZs has found them reliable, but for me they are somewhat difficult to take down to clean. CZ's method of having to hold the frame and grip together, then attempt to push the slide stop pin out with an object is annoying to me. CZs are not for me.

 

[Bronsonbull]

good deal on a 9mm FNP

If you are looking for a good 9mm at a great price, CDNN has FNP-9Ms on sale for $299.

They are great guns that should cost around $450. I guess there was a military over-run and that's why these are on sale.

I bought two . You can't find too much bad info on them.