indiucky
Grandmaster
I would check with her bicycle companion...He seemed to have a big grin on his face and it was an early morning bike ride.....
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Maine nurse won't observe Ebola quarantine - your take?
- Thread starter JTScribe
- Start date
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I would check with her bicycle companion...He seemed to have a big grin on his face and it was an early morning bike ride.....
Keep looking...
I don't know if anyone is "panicking". The media is chasing her, but they've chased people with less meaningful issues. Here, I think we are trying to have a debate about the issue of quarantining someone exposed to Ebola.
Well, I'd probably play with her bodily fluids if I wasn't all married and stuff (got plenty of bodily fluids to play with 
), but only after I was sure she wasn't infectious, which involves a 21, 24, or maybe 42 day quarantine. She's not as hot as that nurse in TX, but she's not too bad to be picky. I do have little confidence in a judge to determine that a quarantine is not necessary. JD and MD both take some intellect, but they're not the same skill set.
), but only after I was sure she wasn't infectious, which involves a 21, 24, or maybe 42 day quarantine. She's not as hot as that nurse in TX, but she's not too bad to be picky. I do have little confidence in a judge to determine that a quarantine is not necessary. JD and MD both take some intellect, but they're not the same skill set.
There is so much I could say here, but I'm working on that self filter. Not because my thoughts are negative, abusive, or wrong, but they are confrontational and would tend to disturb my Wa and yours to no purpose. Wa?*
So let me just remove this altogether.......self conscoiusness vs self awareness vs ego. Go Denver!
* Japanese
So let me just remove this altogether.......self conscoiusness vs self awareness vs ego. Go Denver!
* Japanese
You’ll have to excuse my bewilderment with each iteration of the selfish and stupid argument; I mean, we’re talking about a medical professional, which should at least put a dent in the stupid argument; and she volunteered to save the lives of strangers. Not neighbors, not Americans, but folks on the far side of the world afflicted with a disease that has long been on my Top 10 list ways to not die. To stupid, I beg to differ; to say selfish, though, that is just bizarre. All the more coming from people who so often proclaim the righteousness of freedom and the virtue of due process; who preach to me that one ought care for their fellow citizens of Earth; and so much from a group that a significant portion of which has probably no knowledge of Ebola predating this outbreak.
So, let us yield to those more knowledgeable than us; let us not give into fear and over react, and let no politician twist this into some demented fervor. Let us rely on science, the same you would if you found yourself needing to go under a scalpel.
With that, let me lay out how I understand things to be:
Yes, caretakers have been infected. However, Ebola is rather hard to catch, relatively speaking. Why this problem? By my understanding, it comes down like this:
1) Lack of supplies. When you are relying on the sun to disinfect gear that is generally used as disposable, you are going to have failures in safety protocol.
2) Lack of training. Look, we don’t deal with infectious diseases in the United States anymore. The field has dwindled with the eradication of polio and the banishment of measles and its ilk. (Yes, they’re coming back; but medicine is about economics, and more money is to be made dealing with plastic surgery than infectious disease, geriatrics, or even general practitioners.)
3) Patients with Ebola are only particularly contagious at the end stage. The amount of the virus in the blood goes up greatly, and the amount of bodily fluids leaving the body similarly increase. Said simply, in the last day(s) of a patient, it is very easy for a tiny speckle of blood to carry a significant amount of contagion. This, it should be stressed, is when doctors are likely to be exposed. Citizens, on the other hand, also run the risk of infection be kissing the corpse of a loved one before the body is taken away, buried, or burned.
Now then, those are the vectors. Why do I think this nurse shouldn’t be quarantined just for giggles and safety?
Because those who have been infected with Ebola are not contagious until symptoms appear. The viral load in the blood is too low to pose a likely risk; and the amount of bodily fluid leakage is approximately the same as a healthy person. Only when symptoms present themselves is there a likelihood of transmission with contact of the patient’s bodily fluids, and for the first stretch of the symptomatic stage there remains little additional bodily fluid transmission.
Trust me, this nurse is going to be eyeing her temperature; within an hour of it spiking, I expect her to report it. However, at this time, there are no symptoms and multiple blood tests have come up as negative. With a modicum of risk of transmission if she does have Ebola in its incubation period, along with repeated negative blood tests, the right of the government to lock up this humanitarian should not exist. Low risk if the tests are wrong, repeated safe blood draws, and self-monitoring will be sufficient.
Given the way it is being handled thus far, particularly in the New Jersey fashion, the quarantine has seemed nothing but political grandstanding. And that, that above all, I will not have.
So look, if I’m wrong, correct me. However, I think science backs my understanding – and I certainly expect the nurse to be quite aware of her state of being, seeing as getting medical attention is rather vital to maximizing the chances of survival. As for quarantine and her right to be free, I’m for a due process approach. I do not necessarily have great faith in due process reaching the correct conclusion, but extrajudicial de facto incarceration is wrong.
Finally, remember that whole “We’ll fight the terrorists over there so we won’t have to fight them at home,” claim? Well, this is one of those times this is true. If you want to protect yourself, your best bet is to get more people to manage the outbreak; and you won’t have that if you turn each returning volunteer as an untouchable criminal to be locked outside of hospitals in unheated tents for indefinite amounts of time. Proactive trumps reactive here, and yet almost all I see are kneejerk reactions; it’s a real shame.
So, let us yield to those more knowledgeable than us; let us not give into fear and over react, and let no politician twist this into some demented fervor. Let us rely on science, the same you would if you found yourself needing to go under a scalpel.
With that, let me lay out how I understand things to be:
Yes, caretakers have been infected. However, Ebola is rather hard to catch, relatively speaking. Why this problem? By my understanding, it comes down like this:
1) Lack of supplies. When you are relying on the sun to disinfect gear that is generally used as disposable, you are going to have failures in safety protocol.
2) Lack of training. Look, we don’t deal with infectious diseases in the United States anymore. The field has dwindled with the eradication of polio and the banishment of measles and its ilk. (Yes, they’re coming back; but medicine is about economics, and more money is to be made dealing with plastic surgery than infectious disease, geriatrics, or even general practitioners.)
3) Patients with Ebola are only particularly contagious at the end stage. The amount of the virus in the blood goes up greatly, and the amount of bodily fluids leaving the body similarly increase. Said simply, in the last day(s) of a patient, it is very easy for a tiny speckle of blood to carry a significant amount of contagion. This, it should be stressed, is when doctors are likely to be exposed. Citizens, on the other hand, also run the risk of infection be kissing the corpse of a loved one before the body is taken away, buried, or burned.
Now then, those are the vectors. Why do I think this nurse shouldn’t be quarantined just for giggles and safety?
Because those who have been infected with Ebola are not contagious until symptoms appear. The viral load in the blood is too low to pose a likely risk; and the amount of bodily fluid leakage is approximately the same as a healthy person. Only when symptoms present themselves is there a likelihood of transmission with contact of the patient’s bodily fluids, and for the first stretch of the symptomatic stage there remains little additional bodily fluid transmission.
Trust me, this nurse is going to be eyeing her temperature; within an hour of it spiking, I expect her to report it. However, at this time, there are no symptoms and multiple blood tests have come up as negative. With a modicum of risk of transmission if she does have Ebola in its incubation period, along with repeated negative blood tests, the right of the government to lock up this humanitarian should not exist. Low risk if the tests are wrong, repeated safe blood draws, and self-monitoring will be sufficient.
Given the way it is being handled thus far, particularly in the New Jersey fashion, the quarantine has seemed nothing but political grandstanding. And that, that above all, I will not have.
So look, if I’m wrong, correct me. However, I think science backs my understanding – and I certainly expect the nurse to be quite aware of her state of being, seeing as getting medical attention is rather vital to maximizing the chances of survival. As for quarantine and her right to be free, I’m for a due process approach. I do not necessarily have great faith in due process reaching the correct conclusion, but extrajudicial de facto incarceration is wrong.
Finally, remember that whole “We’ll fight the terrorists over there so we won’t have to fight them at home,” claim? Well, this is one of those times this is true. If you want to protect yourself, your best bet is to get more people to manage the outbreak; and you won’t have that if you turn each returning volunteer as an untouchable criminal to be locked outside of hospitals in unheated tents for indefinite amounts of time. Proactive trumps reactive here, and yet almost all I see are kneejerk reactions; it’s a real shame.
indiucky
Grandmaster
Snoop Dog...He wrote a song about it...I think it's called "Gin(ger) and Juice".....
[video=youtube;_r-M9gipm9s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r-M9gipm9s[/video]
It was an honest question. This whole discussion seems to be built on arbitrary statistics and slippery slopes. Its not a strawman to ask how far people are willing to take this disease hysteria.
So why 50-60% mortality? Why not diseases with 20, 30, or 40% mortality? Does Barack Obama get to decide this? Are the specific diseases spelled out in a law somewhere?
I really dislike vagueness in government policy, so naturally I like to hammer out every possible detail and scenario. I think its awful to have our civil rights hinged on statistics.
If you are prepared to shoot a (suspected) sick person, perhaps you should put down the gun and invest in a plastic bubble. Good grief.
This is a bit like saying, "I am perfectly willing to give up my guns to boost public safety. Why isn't she?"
Unless one believes the government should fill a parental role for Americans, the analogy is a little tough to swallow.
"But mom, I want an AR15..."
terrehautian
Master
No news on this nurse, guess she didn't have Ebola and the media was stalking her is safe.
eldirector
Grandmaster
Last I heard she was declared ebola-free, had served her "quarantine", and is now moving away from that town in Main w/ her boyfriend.
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