make you feel safe?

[Fletch]

Armed robbery, awesome sauce.

I never knew I made people feel less safe, awesome sauce again. Perhaps I should just give in and take advantage of the situation. Didn't create it, don't live up to the B.S. but I guess I'd be an idiot to let the opportunity slip by.

Another great find Serpi. Almost starting to believe that you don't like the police.

I'm sure you're a stand-up guy and a good cop. None of that bothers me.

What bothers me, and the source of my fear, is the fact that, should we encounter one another in an official capacity, you have all the power and I have none. That is not the basis for any sort of mutually respectful relationship. It is a relationship where my choices are submit or be destroyed, no matter the reason for the encounter.

Sure, you can be Officer Friendly. You can be the guy who gives people breaks, who tries to work with people. You can be the guy who even the worst criminals would say "yeah, he arrested me, but he was so damned NICE about it." And all of that would be way cool, and I would give you big wet sloppy kisses for it.

But the problem is, it's still your choice. You can decide where on the spectrum of hardass to nice guy you want to be. You have a ton of latitude in how the encounter will go. Regardless of your choices, my choice remains the same: submit, or be destroyed. I'm not sure how you can expect me to be comfortable with that.

 

[SideArmed]

Nothing to add really, I can see how both sides could agree/disagree with that article. Really I just want to watch how this thread plays out.

 

[phylodog]

You have a ton of latitude in how the encounter will go.

Both sides have the power to determine how the encounter will go. I'm not saying that people should want to give the police a hug everytime they see them. I just finished driving over 4000 miles in the past two weeks on Interstates between Ontario and Houston Texas and I kept a keen eye out for the police for the same reasons everyone else does. Because I didn't want a ticket. A ticket is the process by which the laws are enforced, they are typically accompanied by a fine. The people hired, paid and expected to enforce those laws are the police. Twisting that into the police being armed robbers is beyond ridiculous. I didn't even read past that part of the article because I won't waste my time reading crap from an unreasonable source.

 

[Fletch]

Both sides have the power to determine how the encounter will go. I'm not saying that people should want to give the police a hug everytime they see them. I just finished driving over 4000 miles in the past two weeks on Interstates between Ontario and Houston Texas and I kept a keen eye out for the police for the same reasons everyone else does. Because I didn't want a ticket. A ticket is the process by which the laws are enforced, they are typically accompanied by a fine. The people hired, paid and expected to enforce those laws are the police. Twisting that into the police being armed robbers is beyond ridiculous. I didn't even read past that part of the article because I won't waste my time reading crap from an unreasonable source.

I'll try one more time, on the hope that you're at least trying to understand.

This isn't about the ticket.

My problem is not with suffering the consequences of breaking the rules (even when the rules are stupid). My problem is with the power dynamic in play. I would rather get a ticket from an automated speed camera than have a face-to-face encounter with a traffic cop and be let off with a warning. I can have expectations about the behavior of a traffic camera; with a cop I can only pray that the encounter ends without my being beaten or shot.

 

[serpicostraight]

I'll try one more time, on the hope that you're at least trying to understand.

This isn't about the ticket.

My problem is not with suffering the consequences of breaking the rules (even when the rules are stupid). My problem is with the power dynamic in play. I would rather get a ticket from an automated speed camera than have a face-to-face encounter with a traffic cop and be let off with a warning. I can have expectations about the behavior of a traffic camera; with a cop I can only pray that the encounter ends without my being beaten or shot.

what he said.

 

[phylodog]

I'll try one more time, on the hope that you're at least trying to understand.

This isn't about the ticket.

My problem is not with suffering the consequences of breaking the rules (even when the rules are stupid). My problem is with the power dynamic in play. I would rather get a ticket from an automated speed camera than have a face-to-face encounter with a traffic cop and be let off with a warning. I can have expectations about the behavior of a traffic camera; with a cop I can only pray that the encounter ends without my being beaten or shot.

Well, I guess the only thing I can respond to that with is advise to push yourself away from the internet and most definitely away from these crap posts from Serpicostraight as they have convinced you that your chances of being beaten by the police are about 15,000% greater than they actually are. This is exactly why I get irritated by people posting these "one time at band camp" posts.

Have you been beaten by the police? Do you personally know anyone who has been beaten by the police? Do you personally know anyone who has been shot by the police? Had their door kicked in by a SWAT team? Had their chickens run over by an armored car? Been run over by an intoxicated yet on duty police officer?

No?

Perhaps it's time to stop being led around by alarmists with nothing better to do than climb up on their soap boxes and scream for attention.

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

"I’m in my mid-40s and – so far – have not been robbed at gunpoint by an ordinary criminal. But I have been robbed at gunpoint literally dozens of times by cops, who have a license to rob me. Cumulatively, the total I’ve had to “stand and deliver” – in the felicitous phrase of the appropriately named highway robber of yore – comes to thousands of dollars, over the past twenty-something years. It’s dressed up, of course – in order to make the cop feel better about himself and what he’s doing (he’s just keeping us safe, etc.) and also to douse the rage of his victim by getting him to accept what’s done to him as something other than it is.

That being, a robbery at gunpoint."

Doesn't sound like he excluded many. Any police officer who has written a traffic ticket is an armed robber.

It's not receiving a ticket - for me - that makes me agreeable with the OP. What does make me agreeable is when I was last stopped for speeding I was offered the option of paying the ticket and having it come off of my record in 90 days. That feels like extortion to me. This has little to do with the officer and much to do with the process.

It felt a little like a protection 'racket' really.

 

[rambone]

Have you been beaten by the police? Do you personally know anyone who has been beaten by the police? Do you personally know anyone who has been shot by the police? Had their door kicked in by a SWAT team? Had their chickens run over by an armored car? Been run over by an intoxicated yet on duty police officer?

I actually do. One of my good friend's son. He was pulled over for a traffic stop in Nevada. Just an upstanding citizen exercising his right to open carry. The presence of his weapon got him removed from his vehicle like a criminal. Due to someone flinching, he managed to get a taser fired at him. The prongs got hung up in his clothing and he started to run for his life. He was shot several times in the back. He survived. Las Vegas, a couple years ago. I've seen the scars.

The same department was on quite the killing spree that year from what I recall. That OCer who got killed in front of Costco, most notably.

 

[churchmouse]

I know folks who are both sides of this. I guess the best solution is to avoid the system. It sucks for a reason. Not supposed to enjoy an encounter with LEO. My son received an award for DUI. He knew better, did it anyway and is paying the price. He said the LEO was cool enough even when he was informed of the handgun in the vehicle. Leo was cool about it as son was LTCH. Problem I had was it was one of my 1911's. Still not happy about that.
His trip through the system totally sucked as it is supposed to. Once done, you should learn never to return.

 

[Fletch]

Have you been beaten by the police? Do you personally know anyone who has been beaten by the police? Do you personally know anyone who has been shot by the police? Had their door kicked in by a SWAT team? Had their chickens run over by an armored car? Been run over by an intoxicated yet on duty police officer?

I have had a gun carelessly pointed at me by a cop who ultimately had nothing more important on his mind than giving me a speeding ticket (which I deserved and did not fight). The entire incident was a hazardous situation created by the officer in question, completely unnecessarily, and there was nothing I could say or do except hope he wasn't startled by something and jerk the trigger. I wasn't about to correct his completely unsafe gun handling while he had a burr up his ass about something. As I said, my choices were submit or be destroyed.

It was a single incident, and I've had far more pleasant interactions with police since, most of whom seemed like nice guys just doing a job. But that incident seared into my brain that it doesn't even matter if I follow all the rules, if I'm pleasant and polite, even if I'm not at fault for anything -- if the cop is careless, or angry about something else, or completely wrong about the law, there is nothing I can do -- he holds all the power, and all I have is the hope that I'll survive the encounter. Submit or be destroyed, and in some cases, submit and risk being destroyed anyway.

 

[serpicostraight]

I know folks who are both sides of this. I guess the best solution is to avoid the system. It sucks for a reason. Not supposed to enjoy an encounter with LEO. My son received an award for DUI. He knew better, did it anyway and is paying the price. He said the LEO was cool enough even when he was informed of the handgun in the vehicle. Leo was cool about it as son was LTCH. Problem I had was it was one of my 1911's. Still not happy about that.
His trip through the system totally sucked as it is supposed to. Once done, you should learn never to return.

keep chasing that dream. these days if a cop sees you then you just entered the system. its no longer about catching the bad guys, now its about catching everybody. the theory now seems to be arrest them all and hope something sticks on somebody. or hope they take a plea in which case the cops and prosecutor still wins. its all about the money. the truth or whos guilty or innocent have nothing to do with it.

 

[phylodog]

keep chasing that dream. these days if a cop sees you then you just entered the system. its no longer about catching the bad guys, now its about catching everybody. the theory now seems to be arrest them all and hope something sticks on somebody. or hope they take a plea in which case the cops and prosecutor still wins. its all about the money. the truth or whos guilty or innocent have nothing to do with it.

Oh mighty wise one, please do tell us all of your massive amounts of experience with "the system" or how you have such a thorough understanding of how it all works because you saw it up close and personal while working with Paul Blart.

 

[vitamink]

He gets locked up a lot, so he might know a little something about something....

Everytime i drink and act like an idiot, someone calls the cops and I go to jail... and that's the cop's fault.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

While the days of "Officer Friendly" are over, I don't think that's necessarily the fault of the police. The incidences of violence are occurring with noticeably greater frequency than they did when I was younger - which is why in many urban areas the "gun culture" died out. When police were able to cope with the amount of crime in their communities, it was much easier to be "Officer Friendly". Now with a sharp increase in drug use - legal and illegal - and a general decline in civility among the populace, it's not surprising that when you encounter a cop, he's wary that you might be the one to shoot him unexpectedly.

Unlike the OP article, I was carjacked at gunpoint when I was 19. Thanks to the local police, it wasn't a terribly traumatic incident; but that was a long time ago. Personally, I saw the article as a whiny paen to the unfairness of life in general. I got a number of moving violation tickets when I was young; I mostly avoided them as I got older. I don't see why any reasonable driver couldn't do the same. And if I were to get all exercised about the stupidity of the various laws that we're saddled with, well, that's why we have the political process. Cops don't write the laws; if you want them changed, get the political structure changed and get rid of them. And stop whining about "feeling unsafe".

 

[serpicostraight]

Oh mighty wise one, please do tell us all of your massive amounts of experience with "the system" or how you have such a thorough understanding of how it all works because you saw it up close and personal while working with Paul Blart.

i was arrested and found not guilty and the judge made it very clear that it wasnt even close to a good charge. my brother got a very healthy settlement over his encounter with a cop that had the iq of a box of rocks. cop corruption or stupidity is nothing new. but now due to cell phones its getting exposed. are they all stupid or corrupt? no they arent as a matter of fact most of them are good people but that whole one bad apple, isolated incident is bs. there are way too many dirty cops and every one of them needs to be outed and its obvious thier brothers in blue wont do it.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

i was arrested and found not guilty and the judge made it very clear that it wasnt even close to a good charge. my brother got a very healthy settlement over his encounter with a cop that had the iq of a box of rocks. cop corruption or stupidity is nothing new. but now due to cell phones its getting exposed. are they all stupid or corrupt? no they arent as a matter of fact most of them are good people but that whole one bad apple, isolated incident is bs. there are way too many dirty cops and every one of them needs to be outed and its obvious thier brothers in blue wont do it.

I'm curious, do you call the cops to let them know every time one of your buddies drives drunk? If not, why not?

 

[serpicostraight]

I'm curious, do you call the cops to let them know every time one of your buddies drives drunk? If not, why not?

none of my buddies drive drunk. thats what they make designated drivers and taxis for. but not driving and drinking will still get you the same charge.

 

[vitamink]

i was arrested and found not guilty and the judge made it very clear that it wasnt even close to a good charge. my brother got a very healthy settlement over his encounter with a cop that had the iq of a box of rocks. cop corruption or stupidity is nothing new. but now due to cell phones its getting exposed. are they all stupid or corrupt? no they arent as a matter of fact most of them are good people but that whole one bad apple, isolated incident is bs. there are way too many dirty cops and every one of them needs to be outed and its obvious thier brothers in blue wont do it.

You should post the case numbers of these horrible injustices your brother and you faced so we can all read them. It'd be nice to have a case posted from someone with first hand knowledge instead of armchair quarterback conjecture from a case in another state without any of the facts.

 

[phylodog]

You should post the case numbers of these horrible injustices your brother and you faced so we can all read them. It'd be nice to have a case posted from someone with first hand knowledge instead of armchair quarterback conjecture from a case in another state without any of the facts.

Uh oh

 

[223 Gunner]

My few encounters with Law Enforcement have not been bad at all.
Getting a ticket is never a "pleasent" experience, but the few that I have had over my life I was never treated with disrespect. But it could be how I presented myself when I got pulled over. As far as my feeling of "safety" goes, it does not change with whom ever may be around me.