Making a pistol purchase in another State

[joejenders]

I am a U.S. citizen, and a resident of Indiana. I see a pistol for sale on Armslist.com in another State, like Ohio or Michigan. Could I legally go and make that (FTF) Face To Face purchase of the pistol from that individual that is not a licensed firearms dealer?

 

[downzero]

No.

 

[Solitaire]

Shortest thread ever.

end/thread

 

[kludge]

The pistol would need to be shipped to a dealer in the buyers state of residence and transferred to the buyer.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Let's keep this alive.

Why not? Where are the regs, state or federal, that prohibit F2F transactions by the end users of a firearm just because the users hail from different states of the Union?

 

[lawrra]

Let's keep this alive.

Why not? Where are the regs, state or federal, that prohibit F2F transactions by the end users of a firearm just because the users hail from different states of the Union?

18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(3) makes it unlawful for an FFL to sell or deliver a firearm to a person he or she knows does not reside in the State in which the FFL’s place of business is located.

18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(5) makes it unlawful for an individual to sell or deliver any firearm to any person outside of the state in which the seller resides.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

 

[Bill of Rights]

18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(3) makes it unlawful for an FFL to sell or deliver a firearm to a person he or she knows does not reside in the State in which the FFL’s place of business is located.

18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(5) makes it unlawful for an individual to sell or deliver any firearm to any person outside of the state in which the seller resides.

18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts | LII / Legal Information Institute

Correct, but with the repeal of that requirement in IN law a couple of sessions ago, we can legally buy long guns from FFLs outside of IN and its neighboring states. Handguns remain under that restriction, however.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[kludge]

And also w.r.t. FTF purchases:

18 U.S.C. § 922 : US Code - Section 922: Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful -
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport
into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person
is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it
maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise
obtained by such person outside that State, except that this
paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires
a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other
than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or
receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to
purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not
apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in
conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall
not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any
State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

Note there is an inheritance exception. Assuming it's legal for you to own the firearm(s) in your home state, you can go pick up your inherited firearms and bring them home. No FFL or transfer needed.

 

[rugertoter]

Shortest thread ever.

end/thread

Word! That's funny right there.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Must the handgun be shipped though? If someone within a reasonable driving distance brings the gun to an FFL in my neighborhood (all licenses to transport/carry being followed) can the FFL do the transfer?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Must the handgun be shipped though? If someone within a reasonable driving distance brings the gun to an FFL in my neighborhood (all licenses to transport/carry being followed) can the FFL do the transfer?

Yes.

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

I'm going to thread jack with a very similar topic!

What does the law say about rifles?

My grandpa is going to sell me his .30-30, but he lives out of state, West Virginia to be more specific.

 

[kludge]

The law says "any firearm".

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I'm going to thread jack with a very similar topic!

What does the law say about rifles?

My grandpa is going to sell me his .30-30, but he lives out of state, West Virginia to be more specific.

The law says "any firearm".

I can type better now that I'm on a real keyboard...

When dealing with firearm transfers between residents of differing states, an FFL MUST be used to complete the transfer.

WHERE that FFL holder physically is is the difference between long guns and handguns.

With a handgun, the FFL holder must be in the buyer's state of residence.

With a long gun, the FFL holder MAY be in the seller's state OR the buyer's state.

But here is where there is some confusion: Generally speaking, if your state borders another state, then the long gun transfer can be done in either the buyer's or seller's state of residence. BUT - each individual state's laws can put the kibosh on that if they so choose. ALSO - and depending on what state the seller is in, you MIGHT be able to legally do the transfer in the seller's state even though it doesn't share a border. (I'm pretty sure I've read on here where an IN resident has purchased a rifle/shotgun at...oh...say the Cabela's in Caspar, WY)

The short of it is that ALL LEGAL firearms transfers between residents of differing states MUST utilize an FFL holder and a 4473 filled out by the buyer.

It gets mushy from there due to state laws allowing/disallowing different things.

-J-

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

I can type better now that I'm on a real keyboard...

When dealing with firearm transfers between residents of differing states, an FFL MUST be used to complete the transfer.

WHERE that FFL holder physically is is the difference between long guns and handguns.

With a handgun, the FFL holder must be in the buyer's state of residence.

With a long gun, the FFL holder MAY be in the seller's state OR the buyer's state.

But here is where there is some confusion: Generally speaking, if your state borders another state, then the long gun transfer can be done in either the buyer's or seller's state of residence. BUT - each individual state's laws can put the kibosh on that if they so choose. ALSO - and depending on what state the seller is in, you MIGHT be able to legally do the transfer in the seller's state even though it doesn't share a border. (I'm pretty sure I've read on here where an IN resident has purchased a rifle/shotgun at...oh...say the Cabela's in Caspar, WY)

The short of it is that ALL LEGAL firearms transfers between residents of differing states MUST utilize an FFL holder and a 4473 filled out by the buyer.

It gets mushy from there due to state laws allowing/disallowing different things.

-J-

This is WONDERFUL to know! Thank you! So, let me make sure i understand this concept. I can buy the rifle from my grandpa and transport it back to Indiana, ONLY if i go to my local FFL and fill out this 4473 form. Basically the whole transaction is illegal until that 4473 form is filled out. Is this correct??

EDIT: I meant to say, can i purchase/transport the weapon back to Indiana first, then hit up the FFL, or do i need the FFL first, then purchase and transport?

 

[ATM]

...EDIT: I meant to say, can i purchase/transport the weapon back to Indiana first, then hit up the FFL, or do i need the FFL first, then purchase and transport?

He could transport it here to an IN FFL to do the transfer or you could transfer it at a WV FFL before you transport it back here. (Assuming the laws of both states are followed.)
The actual transfer must take place via an FFL.

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

This is WONDERFUL to know! Thank you! So, let me make sure i understand this concept. I can buy the rifle from my grandpa and transport it back to Indiana, ONLY if i go to my local FFL and fill out this 4473 form. Basically the whole transaction is illegal until that 4473 form is filled out. Is this correct??

EDIT: I meant to say, can i purchase/transport the weapon back to Indiana first, then hit up the FFL, or do i need the FFL first, then purchase and transport?

I'd caution you against transporting the rifle on your own - without the owner present - to an FFL for the purposes of the transfer. It IS legal to borrow firearms (provided you're a legal party, etc). If it's a "face to face sale", I'd strongly suggest that BOTH of you be at the FFL for the transaction.

A) pay FFL holder the transfer fee, let them do their intake paperwork
B) fill out 4473, get it called in, get the "proceed"
C) pay seller the money

If I were wanting to stay 100% legal, I'd not have the purchased gun in my possession before I did the transfer. I mean, if you already have possession of the gun - why bother to pay $15-35 for a transfer?

-J-

 

[xxkornxx56]

No ftf just through an ffl transfer.

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

I'd caution you against transporting the rifle on your own - without the owner present - to an FFL for the purposes of the transfer. It IS legal to borrow firearms (provided you're a legal party, etc). If it's a "face to face sale", I'd strongly suggest that BOTH of you be at the FFL for the transaction.

A) pay FFL holder the transfer fee, let them do their intake paperwork
B) fill out 4473, get it called in, get the "proceed"
C) pay seller the money

If I were wanting to stay 100% legal, I'd not have the purchased gun in my possession before I did the transfer. I mean, if you already have possession of the gun - why bother to pay $15-35 for a transfer?

-J-

Very valid points yes, but here is where it gets VERY tricky! My grandparents live in the boondocks of extreme southern WV. I have NO idea where a FFL would be around there, and more than likely, my grandpa would not be willing to go find one, unless he knew of one in the area.

How would you guys suggest i handle this?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Very valid points yes, but here is where it gets VERY tricky! My grandparents live in the boondocks of extreme southern WV. I have NO idea where a FFL would be around there, and more than likely, my grandpa would not be willing to go find one, unless he knew of one in the area.

How would you guys suggest i handle this?

I suggest you find an FFL local to you who would accept a shipment from an individual and have your grandfather ship it to the FFL.

Common carriers require overnight shipping for firearms and will probably require a copy of the receiving FFL. I do not know if the USPS would require overnighting or not. ( for reference, non FFL holders cannot ship handguns via USPS)