Making tools from scratch

[CountryBoy19]

Scraping is a art, we have a Master Tool Maker at my shop that has done the same thing. Trying to learn that technique myself from him before he retires.

To be honest, it's not super hard to scrape if you have somebody to show/guide you. The hard part is knowing how/where to scrape to get the proper alignment of parts and in what order to scrape the parts. I'm not a master, I mainly just do my own rebuilds (currently 90% complete on a vintage Leblond long-bed Dual-Drive)...

Never said it was easy getting .00005". It took A LOT of time and patience, more less a test in myself to see if I could. I’m skeptical that you are a “real engineer” but most engineers check humility at the door and replace with arrogance once said degree is achieved

Isn't that the truth? I deal with that attitude all the time, and I personally struggle with it myself sometimes. I wasn't intending to trash your thread or put you down, I was just emphasizing how incredibly hard it is to hit those numbers; heck, it's hard to measure those numbers accurately.

 

[SPOOK331945]

To be honest, it's not super hard to scrape if you have somebody to show/guide you. The hard part is knowing how/where to scrape to get the proper alignment of parts and in what order to scrape the parts. I'm not a master, I mainly just do my own rebuilds (currently 90% complete on a vintage Leblond long-bed Dual-Drive)...



Isn't that the truth? I deal with that attitude all the time, and I personally struggle with it myself sometimes. I wasn't intending to trash your thread or put you down, I was just emphasizing how incredibly hard it is to hit those numbers; heck, it's hard to measure those numbers accurately.

Wasn’t trying to be rude, but I don’t blame some people calling “bull” when I post those tolerances. It isn’t something you see everyday but in my case day in day out .0001” is what I work with. Almost all if not all of my back up blocks are ground to that or better if I’m able. Because in the same case of rebuilding machinings, they can only produce parts as good the ways will allow them. Been many of cases I’ve had to let the part sit on the granite for a couple hours just to normalize to get a good measurement. Few industries compare, two of which that do is Aerospace and Optics. Neither areas I’ve worked before but luckily I work with a few that have. Heck some days I don’t do a thing in the shop other than observe the Masters at work. What I would give to have .005” To work with and not have to have everything spit shined all the time lol, but then again closer tolerances = more $$$$. Here’s an example of some of the tooling I work with.

 

[ghuns]

I used to build injection molds for wire connectors. Often, the same tool could produce a part from 2 to 24 circuits. That meant stacking up to 24 terminal inserts in a mold cavity.
If you were .0001" off on each of them, you were screwed.

And we didn't have a lapping machine. Did them all on surface grinders. Some of the molds were 16 cavities so we'd have to make 384 inserts, plus 25% spares. Good times.

 

[SPOOK331945]

I used to build injection molds for wire connectors. Often, the same tool could produce a part from 2 to 24 circuits. That meant stacking up to 24 terminal inserts in a mold cavity.
If you were .0001" off on each of them, you were screwed.

And we didn't have a lapping machine. Did them all on surface grinders. Some of the molds were 16 cavities so we'd have to make 384 inserts, plus 25% spares. Good times.

Sounds identical to what I do now, all electrical connectors, stamping and molding. Unless we hand lap its all done of surface grinders. Luckily we have a new profile grinder

 

[Tactically Fat]

I’m skeptical that you are a “real engineer”

He is indeed a real bona-fide degreed engineer.

 

[CountryBoy19]

He is indeed a real bona-fide degreed engineer.

Don't give me too much credit... some days I don't do any engineering, I just spin my wheels and sit in meetings... or like today, find out that access credentials had somehow gotten wiped out to a limited access area so I spent half my morning just getting that straightened out...

 

[bobjones223]

Get a hold of one of these...

[video=youtube;57XnzIOi-oU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57XnzIOi-oU[/video]

It's never boring.

EDMs are the worst. Even the newest, bestest, go fastest ones still remove metal at glacial speeds. The machine in the video isn't ours, but we have a similar one. The amount of EDM work it has gotten rid of around here is staggering.

Okay I will admit when it comes to machining I know NOTHING!! but this just looks like trying to do open heart surgery on a Tilt A-whirl!!!

 

[churchmouse]

I like that. Nice work. I will never look at my set up the same.......

 

[ghuns]

Okay I will admit when it comes to machining I know NOTHING!! but this just looks like trying to do open heart surgery on a Tilt A-whirl!!!

It's not open heart surgery. It's much more precise than that.

That video is really just for showing off. It's not often that a part's geometry allows you to go that fast.

In the world of NC machines, there aren't many like the Roeders. They are a neat company. They've been in business since around 1800. Started off making pewter tableware. They eventually moved into making blow molds for plastic bottles. When they couldn't find a CNC machine that suited them, being German, they just built their own. They built a very accurate machine, but wanted it to go faster, so they developed their own CNC control. The control is pretty unique in that the more data you feed it, the happier it gets. It takes the point to point data you feed it and creates splines the machine interpolates according to where you set certain parameters, acceleration, tolerance, etc. In most of my finish programs for the machine, the maximum distance between any 2 points in a toolpath is .002". So a 12" linear move that's a single line of code for most machines is 6000 separate moves on the Roeders. It makes for some large programs, but the speed at which the control processes is like nothing I've ever seen.

This program is more typical for the speed ours normally runs. The endmill it's cutting with is either a 1/16" or a 1/32" ball, it's been awhile so I don't remember. The part it's cutting is 56 Rc S-7...

[video=youtube;dJLFHtNKn00]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJLFHtNKn00[/video]

 

[SPOOK331945]

It's not open heart surgery. It's much more precise than that.

That video is really just for showing off. It's not often that a part's geometry allows you to go that fast.

In the world of NC machines, there aren't many like the Roeders. They are a neat company. They've been in business since around 1800. Started off making pewter tableware. They eventually moved into making blow molds for plastic bottles. When they couldn't find a CNC machine that suited them, being German, they just built their own. They built a very accurate machine, but wanted it to go faster, so they developed their own CNC control. The control is pretty unique in that the more data you feed it, the happier it gets. It takes the point to point data you feed it and creates splines the machine interpolates according to where you set certain parameters, acceleration, tolerance, etc. In most of my finish programs for the machine, the maximum distance between any 2 points in a toolpath is .002". So a 12" linear move that's a single line of code for most machines is 6000 separate moves on the Roeders. It makes for some large programs, but the speed at which the control processes is like nothing I've ever seen.

This program is more typical for the speed ours normally runs. The endmill it's cutting with is either a 1/16" or a 1/32" ball, it's been awhile so I don't remember. The part it's cutting is 56 Rc S-7...

[video=youtube;dJLFHtNKn00]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJLFHtNKn00[/video]

HOLY S#$%.... Running those speeds, hard milling, with a 1/32..... whoaaaa..

I was milling out a .250 square pocket yesterday, called for .030 radius in the corners. Luckily it was just for bolt head clearance so the radius wasn't critical. Broke one 1/16" endmill can was crawling compared to that.

 

[ghuns]

HOLY S#$%.... Running those speeds, hard milling, with a 1/32..... whoaaaa..

A 42000RPM spindle helps.

That block is all milled, except for one wire EDMed pocket. It got roughed to +.030", heat treated, back side finish ground, and thrown in the 5 axis. The 1/32" cutter has .156" of reach. There are a bunch of .015" radii at the bottom of some near vertical walls that are about .750" tall. Being able to tilt the cutter away so the shank doesn't hit is the bomb. That block spent about 12 hours in the machine. If we had EDMed most of it, it still would've spent 5-8 hours on a mill, but then probably 30-40 in an EDM.