Man charged with neglect after young son fires rifle, killing 13 yr old half bro

[actaeon277]

The best way to parent is expose your kids to guns and tell them to be careful. No need to lock 'em up because that's how my dad did it.Gun safes are a waste of money.

And what would locking them up have to do with this situation?
He was going to clean the gun. Is he supposed to do this inside the safe?
Expose the kid to guns. This is a good idea. I'm betting he didn't go over the rules. "Cause the kid is too young". And cause I don't think the parent knew.

 

[wtfd661]

And what would locking them up have to do with this situation?
He was going to clean the gun. Is he supposed to do this inside the safe?
Expose the kid to guns. This is a good idea. I'm betting he didn't go over the rules. "Cause the kid is too young". And cause I don't think the parent knew.

I suppose locking the gun up when he left the room instead of leaving it out then the 13 year old would still be alive.

 

[actaeon277]

I suppose locking the gun up when he left the room instead of leaving it out then the 13 year old would still be alive.

Maybe, if he UNLOADED the gun, the 13 year old would be alive.
If he carried the gun with, the 13 year old would be alive.

I don't know very many people that need to get something from another room, and lock their gun up to do it.

 

[revance]

Although some people think this concept is a joke worthy of ridicule in purple... where he PROBABLY went wrong most was NOT teaching his kids, drilling the EE rules into them, and ensuring they were given enough opportunity to safely handle his guns to the point of being bored by them.

No matter how neurotic you are about locking your guns up, you WILL screw up and make a mistake someday.

I don't trust my kids enough to leave guns laying around, but I have enough confidence that I can sleep at night and not worry about the inevitable mistake I will make someday. Seriously, i got my wife a purple anodized PacLite and Ruger and I practically had to twist my daughters arm to hold it and look at it. She knows she can touch anything as long as she asks first.

Its a package deal. You need to do both. If you don't lock them up, your kids will make a mistake someday, maybe not even trying to be bad. If you lock them but not educate and expose, someday YOU will make a mistake and your curious kids will end up hurt or dead.

 

[j706]

Sad

 

[Tombs]

Maybe, if he UNLOADED the gun, the 13 year old would be alive.
If he carried the gun with, the 13 year old would be alive.

I don't know very many people that need to get something from another room, and lock their gun up to do it.

Except all guns are always loaded.

Best way to handle the situation is to clear the firearm then flag the chamber.

 

[LarryC]

What do people want to happen here?

This poor boy just killed his brother, and now you want him to lose his father as well. He is going to be messed up enough without blaming himself for his dad being in jail.

This family has been literally blown apart. What they need now is to find a way to heal. There is no way there can be justice in this case, only finding a way to live with what happened. I hope the family is able to find one that allows them to go forward in a semi-healthy manner.

I have to agree. Incarceration is or was actually meant to do a couple of things, both of which I agree with - (1) Protect the public from Bad guys that are likely to harm other people. And (2) "scare" other "potential" people from committing the same "crime" or action - therefore again protecting other people. What is to be gained by incarceration of this man? Granted this was a STUPID action on his part, leading to the death of one of his son's and scarring the other for the rest of his life. But there is ZERO likelihood that he would ever commit the same thing again. Nor will punishing him, and his remaining family by incarceration even remotely affect anyone else as a preventative measure.

The only thing served would be revenge - not really supposed to be part of our justice system, and the liberals will have gained another selling point, proving to themselves that people that own guns are dangerous "criminals".

To me this issue is no worse or better than someone who backs over a child in their driveway due to inattention. I am quite sure he will punish himself more than any jail time would.

 

[LarryC]

I wonder about how the boy will turn out if he continues to be raised by such a "father." I also fear for the safety of others since the father has, allegedly, allowed the rifle to be in such a state of availability to where the boy was able to point the rifle at other people as well. Sounds like maybe the best solution here would be a felony conviction with probation so this "adult" can't possess weapons in the future, can stay in his child's life, and hopefully keep whatever job he has now.

Here is the probable cause affidavit with noted statements from a witness saying the boy has pointed the rifle at them prior to this incident:

http://media.theindychannel.com/docs/doc02257320140321145858.pdf

The one thing I don't like is that how some parents get a pass and others don't. We have had some similar shootings in recent years that even involve the firearms of LEOs, yet I've not heard of any of them being charged. I really wish people would get into the habit of buying a safe and not letting children play with guns. I don't care how "mature" one thinks their six-year old is, one lets them fondle firearms, they are going to view them as toys.

Well I certainly disagree, with your last statement. I am 72 years old, I held firearms when I was quite young as did most of my friends during the era when I was raised. NONE of us ever considered them "TOYS" and considered it an honor to hold the firearms. At that time (1940's -1950's) almost every farmhouse, many homes in small towns, and vehicles had firearms in plain sight. Some were kept loaded, most were unloaded but had ammunition stored in plain sight near the firearms.

During my childhood, I never heard of ANY child or adult "accidental" shooting. Neither I nor any of my friends ever held or even touched a firearm without permission. Taken into context, your statement would indicate you should never let a child sit on your lap and hold the steering wheel or honk the horn (when sitting in your driveway) as it will lead to them taking your car and injuring someone.

I feel just the opposite is true. Children should be acquainted with firearms, and educated that they are dangerous and what rules apply. Also punishment should be meted if they ever touch one without permission. No, I didn't / don't keep loaded firearms in reach of any children when raising them or today, I could have trusted mine - but not their friends as I am sure many were not properly taught.

The accident / "neglect" could have been prevented by the father, quite possibly he was never properly trained in firearms when he was young!

 

[wtfd661]

Maybe, if he UNLOADED the gun, the 13 year old would be alive.
If he carried the gun with, the 13 year old would be alive.

I don't know very many people that need to get something from another room, and lock their gun up to do it.

I would've rather of locked it up then leave it out where a 6 year old could pick it up and kill a 13 year old. Kind of hard to argue the results isn't it?

 

[SERparacord]

Maybe, if he UNLOADED the gun, the 13 year old would be alive.
If he carried the gun with, the 13 year old would be alive.

I don't know very many people that need to get something from another room, and lock their gun up to do it.

When my Son was born all guns left the house. But that's just me putting more importance on human life than guns.

 

[actaeon277]

I would've rather of locked it up then leave it out where a 6 year old could pick it up and kill a 13 year old. Kind of hard to argue the results isn't it?

People usually lock their guns up when they are done with them. Do you lock your steak knives up when you get up from the table to get salt from the kitchen.

Argue with results? Getting rid of guns would prevent it also.

When my Son was born all guns left the house. But that's just me putting more importance on human life than guns.

Good for you.
And if someone broke into your house, mistakenly looking for drugs, and then brutalized everyone in front of the kid?
Then you'd be dealing with the results, as this man has.
Did you rid the house of automobiles? They are a menace.



This kid died, cause the gun was left unattended and unloaded.
Apparently no training for him, or the other kid that coulda kept him from the gun.

 

[actaeon277]

When my Son was born all guns left the house. But that's just me putting more importance on human life than guns.

By the way, some people like me have to deal with psychos. Putting guns out of the house would NOT make the household safer.

 

[Viper1973]

This entire situation is terrible all the way around... Putting the family through MORE grief for what was a tragic accident doesn't give anyone 'justice'.
If parents and schools would go back to educating children about firearms with Eddie Eagle like they used to things like this wouldn't happen. It's more politically correct to keep guns away from children than to educate them on proper handling and safety.

 

[SERparacord]

People usually lock their guns up when they are done with them. Do you lock your steak knives up when you get up from the table to get salt from the kitchen.

Argue with results? Getting rid of guns would prevent it also


Good for you.
And if someone broke into your house, mistakenly looking for drugs, and then brutalized everyone in front of the kid?
Then you'd be dealing with the results, as this man has.
Did you rid the house of automobiles? They are a menace.



This kid died, cause the gun was left unattended and unloaded.
Apparently no training for him, or the other kid that coulda kept him from the gun.

If.......

 

[88GT]

The personal tragedy doesn't absolve the criminal liability here. It sucks this family has been destroyed by a ridiculous level of carelessness, but that in itself can't be the punishment for such negligence. I knew a family in Florida where the mother left an infant alone in the bathtub for a brief moment with predictable results. That brief moment ended one life and destroyed another. Same scenario here, both preventable, both tragic, both worthy of a prison sentence.

Stupidity is not criminal. Calling this criminal is criminal. .

I wonder about how the boy will turn out if he continues to be raised by such a "father." I also fear for the safety of others since the father has, allegedly, allowed the rifle to be in such a state of availability to where the boy was able to point the rifle at other people as well. Sounds like maybe the best solution here would be a felony conviction with probation so this "adult" can't possess weapons in the future, can stay in his child's life, and hopefully keep whatever job he has now.

Yep. We should just give all children to the state because there are parents out there that don't do as good a job as us.

The one thing I don't like is that how some parents get a pass and others don't. We have had some similar shootings in recent years that even involve the firearms of LEOs, yet I've not heard of any of them being charged. I really wish people would get into the habit of buying a safe and not letting children play with guns. I don't care how "mature" one thinks their six-year old is, one lets them fondle firearms, they are going to view them as toys.

That's bull****. I've got two kids who say otherwise.

When my Son was born all guns left the house. But that's just me putting more importance on human life than guns.

Sooooo, a parent who decides to keep firearms in the house with children doesn't value human life?

Those of you defending this as criminal should beware the unintended consequences of the implicit argument that loaded and unsafed firearms are inherently bad.

 

[Sgtusmc]

All sadness aside for what's happened, it just ticks me off when idiot's let this crap happen and then my GF gives me the "Mmmm-Hmmm" when we're sitting there watching the news.

 

[HoughMade]

To those who say that a 6 year old will inevitably pick up a gun and play with it....BS.

I have kids 16, 14, 10 and 9. If I do my math right, this means that I have had a total of 4 6-year-olds over time who were exposed to guns in the house. None of them even picked up a gun unless I told them it was OK, but normally I did not do that. They would only pick up a gun if I placed in in their hands. It was a matter of instruction and respect for authority. I know respect for authority is not all that popular sometimes, but there are times it can keep you from getting dead. My kids aren't perfect, far, far from, but they know not to play with deadly stuff. Of course I never would have left a loaded gun laying around an unsupervised 6 year old.

Now, if you KNOW that your child sees everything as a toy (and who would know this better than a parent?) then you simply cannot leave guns around them never, never, never. Leaving it loaded? Worse yet. Not knowing there is one in the chamber? No excuse. If you can't master that one little detail, regardless of your rights, you have not the mental capacity to handle guns. This is what double and triple checking was invented for.

"Everyone will have a negligent discharge some day" is what the dangerously careless tell themselves to feel better.

To those who say this should not have been charged, certainly prosecutors should use discretion in charging, but I can see charging this one and it certainly seems to fit the elements of the crime:

(a) A person having the care of a dependent, whether assumed voluntarily or because of a legal obligation, who knowingly or intentionally:

(1) places the dependent in a situation that endangers the dependent's life or health;..


commits neglect of a dependent, a Class D felony.


(b) However, the offense is:


(2) a Class B felony if it is committed under subsection (a)(1), (a)(2), or (a)(3) and results in serious bodily injury;


(3) a Class A felony if it is committed under subsection (a)(1), (a)(2), or (a)(3) by a person at least eighteen (18) years of age and results in the death of a dependent who is less than fourteen (14) years of age;...


Ind. Code Ann. § 35-46-1-4

Looks like they could have charged it as an "A" felony.

 

[actaeon277]

All sadness aside for what's happened, it just ticks me off when idiot's let this crap happen and then my GF gives me the "Mmmm-Hmmm" when we're sitting there watching the news.

When you see defensive uses online, print them up.
When that happens, you can shove the pile at her.

 

[KLB]

To those who say that a 6 year old will inevitably pick up a gun and play with it....BS.

I have kids 16, 14, 10 and 9. If I do my math right, this means that I have had a total of 4 6-year-olds over time who were exposed to guns in the house. None of them even picked up a gun unless I told them it was OK, but normally I did not do that. They would only pick up a gun if I placed in in their hands. It was a matter of instruction and respect for authority. I know respect for authority is not all that popular sometimes, but there are times it can keep you from getting dead. My kids aren't perfect, far, far from, but they know not to play with deadly stuff. Of course I never would have left a loaded gun laying around an unsupervised 6 year old.

Now, if you KNOW that your child sees everything as a toy (and who would know this better than a parent?) then you simply cannot leave guns around them never, never, never. Leaving it loaded? Worse yet. Not knowing there is one in the chamber? No excuse. If you can't master that one little detail, regardless of your rights, you have not the mental capacity to handle guns. This is what double and triple checking was invented for.

"Everyone will have a negligent discharge some day" is what the dangerously careless tell themselves to feel better.

To those who say this should not have been charged, certainly prosecutors should use discretion in charging, but I can see charging this one and it certainly seems to fit the elements of the crime:



(a) A person having the care of a dependent, whether assumed voluntarily or because of a legal obligation, who knowingly or intentionally:

(1) places the dependent in a situation that endangers the dependent's life or health;..


commits neglect of a dependent, a Class D felony.


(b) However, the offense is:


(2) a Class B felony if it is committed under subsection (a)(1), (a)(2), or (a)(3) and results in serious bodily injury;


(3) a Class A felony if it is committed under subsection (a)(1), (a)(2), or (a)(3) by a person at least eighteen (18) years of age and results in the death of a dependent who is less than fourteen (14) years of age;...



Ind. Code Ann. § 35-46-1-4

That law is there to make people feel good. Sounds like a way to charge an adult with a felony any time the .gov feels like it.

My granddaughter is about to start riding horses for 4H. Falling off a horse could kill someone, and that could be a felony as I read that law.

Would you be in favor of charging someone whose child drowns in a pool when they are not looking? If a child gets their hands on a knife and stabs someone? What if the child climbs a bookshelf and it falls on them? Where do people want to draw a line between tragedy and criminal? I know for me this is not on the side of criminal.

Looks like they could have charged it as an "A" felony.

According to the complaint they did. One Class A felony and one class C.

 

[churchmouse]

Maybe, if he UNLOADED the gun, the 13 year old would be alive.
If he carried the gun with, the 13 year old would be alive.

I don't know very many people that need to get something from another room, and lock their gun up to do it.

I clean and work on my guns in the shop. No kids or errant adults allowed. I have had far more issues with adults "Snatching up" a gun from the table than children. Untrained adults are like idiot kids around an unattended gun. Not all but most.