Mini Rant about Classifieds

[G_Stines]

For me, I have no issues what so ever signing a bill of sale, depending on the information asked on there. I refuse to give my address, or as one guy who asked for a copy of my DL, and I told him to forget about it.

Whenever I sell a firearm, the bill of sale is dependent on one question: Am I the first owner?

If I am, I require a bill of sale, no ifs ands or buts. If not, then I will be more lenient to forgo it, depending on whether I signed one or not. I keep a binder of my firearms, serial #s, and where and when I acquire, and give up ownership. It's the same binder with all my load data for each particular gun. So all my documentation is in there, in the safe.

My bill of sale includes a printed name, birth date, price, Model and serial #. Thats all I require, unless they do not have a LTCH, and then I have a second version in which it states that their ownership is conditional to them being of legal age, and felony free, and also requires the last four digits of the DL number. That way, if ever needed, the police can track them down, since I have no visible proof of their felony status, and only have my gut to go on.

ETA: The buyer gets a copy as well.

 

[donnie1581]

I've bought two guns from private sellers; one was an INGO member and the other was from armslist. I signed a bill of sale on both guns. It doesn't bother me to sign my name on a piece of paper when purchasing an item and I don't know why some complain about doing it. How many times have you been forced to sign your name for something and not thought twice about it? What makes buying privately different to where you don't want to sign your name?

I also don't negotiate. If I find a gun on here or elsewhere for sale, I pay the price they list. I know the difference in a good deal and MSRP; so why haggle the seller?

 

[lovemachine]

Besides, I try to keep records on anything I buy and sell. Even if it's gun related, home and vehicle repair and mods.

 

[target64]

Checking your LTCH tells me that you can legally carry and more importantly own a handgun, it's safe to assume that you don't intend to commit a crime with a firearm, while it's not as good as the NICS it tells me that you're probably not a criminal.

While I agree with your position.
I saw someone who was going to purchase at a FFL, he was denied by NICS.
His LTCH was less than two weeks old.
Sometimes strange things do occur.

 

[Expat]

I don't see what the big deal is. Both parties are getting an excellent deal. So grow up.

So if we disagree with you we are being childish?

 

[geronimojoe85]

So if we disagree with you we are being childish?

I think he means complaining about it.
If I don't like the sellers conditions I walk from the deal.
If the seller for whatever reason wants to know my race, religion, political stance, address, blood type, SSN, shoe size, or whatever, I can either comply or tell him/her to screw. That's the nature of the beast, it's a private sale.

 

[lovemachine]

So if we disagree with you we are being childish?

I think he means complaining about it.
If I don't like the sellers conditions I walk from the deal.
If the seller for whatever reason wants to know my race, religion, political stance, address, blood type, SSN, shoe size, or whatever, I can either comply or tell him/her to screw. That's the nature of the beast, it's a private sale.

I mean complaining about it. It's childish to start a thread and whine about it. It's the sellers gun. He can sell it to whoever and however he wants. If you don't like it, dont buy it, and don't cry about it. It's not that difficult.

 

[Jolfe]

A bill of sale protects both the buyer and seller. The seller has record that he no longer owns the gun and the buyer that he obtained it legally and from whom. What is objectionable about that???

+1

 

[JohnP82]

I voted yes since it says sign a bill of sale. Yes as in signature only.
That doesn't bother me.

I have no problem showing an ID to prove IN residence, but I will not go through with sale if they want any other info such as address, DL #,or LTCH #

If I am the seller I just want to see a valid IN ID to prove they are an IN resident, I do not care about a LTCH since it is not required to purchase a firearm. I also like a bill of sale just stating on this date I sold make and model of gun with serial # to this person with both of our signatures and we both get a copy for our records. I would have no problem doing the same if I were the buyer. Just my

 

[Chefcook]

So you don't think I would have any liability if you used a handgun registered in my name in a bank robbery and killed someone with it? And you don't think the police would ignore the fact that I said, "I sold it to some guy" when they asked where it was? And when they say, "Who'd you sell it to?" and I'd have to say, "IDK, I didn't get his name or any information." you actually believe I'm not going to see the inside of a jail cell?

I've only sold 1 firearm, but you'd better believe I had a bill of sale signed by the guy and myself saying that, "To my knowledge he is legal to own a firearm and after the purchase I am cleared of any legal action if a crime is made with the firearm."

I didn't take down SSN's, phone numbers, etc. All it is is me protecting my own @ss so that if he sells it to someone who sells it to someone who decides to go murder someone, I have a bill of sale which is physical evidence that I sold the firearm.

Dude you are so entirely clueless about the second amendment and about Indiana law. There is NO I repeat NO gun registration in Indiana you have NO guns registered in your name, PERIOD..... The paperwork you fill out when you buy a gun is retained by the FFL holder the make model and serial number of the firearm goes no further than the FFL dealer. The state nor the FBI have any record of what kind of gun you bought. The FBI only knows you bought a gun not what kind or model etc. There is good reason for this. Gun registration is the most intrusive form of second amendment infringement. Imagine if there was a record of gun ownership. An out of control government or hostile invading force would simply have to obtain that record and go out and scoop up all the guns and gun owners. The only searchable database for firearms is a database composed of serial numbers of guns reported stolen by their owners. That's it PERIOD. Oh and yes I will sign a bill of sale and have done so many times. If it makes someone feel better or if they want it for their financial records thats fine, because it is not worth the paper it is written on.

 

[JOLLYKART]

Sign it with a huge stroke of the pen, and a couple of dots, if that what the seller wants. I am do doctor but can write like one.

Enjoy the gun, make the seller happy, and move along.

 

[Sylvain]

Dude you are so entirely clueless about the second amendment and about Indiana law. There is NO I repeat NO gun registration in Indiana you have NO guns registered in your name, PERIOD..... The paperwork you fill out when you buy a gun is retained by the FFL holder the make model and serial number of the firearm goes no further than the FFL dealer. The state nor the FBI have any record of what kind of gun you bought. The FBI only knows you bought a gun not what kind or model etc. There is good reason for this. Gun registration is the most intrusive form of second amendment infringement. Imagine if there was a record of gun ownership. An out of control government or hostile invading force would simply have to obtain that record and go out and scoop up all the guns and gun owners. The only searchable database for firearms is a database composed of serial numbers of gun reported stolen by their owners. That's it PERIOD. Oh and yes I will sign a bill of sale and have done so many times. If it makes someone feel better or if they want it for their financial records thats fine, because it is not worth the paper it is written on.

Well said. +1
I hear so many people talking about "registered guns" in Indiana.
As a gun owner you should know about your state gun laws.

 

[sbcman]

INGO has classifieds? Link, please! I come here solely for political discussion forum.

 

[iChokePeople]

INGO has classifieds? Link, please! I come here solely for political discussion forum.

Yeah, but you have to have *50 posts* before you can use them?!

 

[EPD1102]

You're being anal retentive. I get a bill of sale on anything over a certain dollar amount. Sell my car? Bill of sale. I'm not "keeping records on you", I'm "keeping records on my transaction and the disposition of a high-value item". If you don't want a bill of sale, that's cool. I have no problem with that. I'll politely decline to sell it to you and I'll go with number two in line.

+1

 

[Chefcook]

Well said. +1
I hear so many people talking about "registered guns" in Indiana.
As a gun owner you should know about your state gun laws.

I probably should apologize for my last post at least a little. While I did not type it in caps I was screaming inside my head the entire time. Its just that this topic comes up all the time and everyday becomes even more ridiculous. In the future asking to see an LTCH to buy or sell a firearm is going to become very problematic. Since the change in the law LTCH applications are going to fall off. Many people only have an LTCH because it used to be a requirement to transport a handgun. Now that it is not, many people will not bother with it.

 

[sbcman]

Yeah, but you have to have *50 posts* before you can use them?!

What!?! That's outrageous

I bet "they" want them to be "quality" posts too

 

[printcraft]

Yeah, but you have to have *50 posts* before you can use them?!

Totally off-topic.

 

[patton487]

Every gun I've sold on here, I've required a Bill Of Sale. The buyer and seller both gets one. The info I put on there is the date, buyer and seller name, the agreed on cost, phone number and address. And signatures. And I do want to see a drivers license, AND a LTCH if it's a handgun.

Don't like it? Tough. Don't buy from me. I know it's not necessary. And it could be false info from the buyer. But I still do it for peace of mind.

I don't see what the big deal is. Both parties are getting an excellent deal. So grow up.

I'm sure your a good joe, but I respectfully submit:

1. I have no interest in your "peace of mind"
2. I am grown up, and old enough to remember what "shall not be infringed" means.
3. There are enough Federal and State gun laws to choke a horse. I don't need you making up your own.
4. Your right, I would never buy anything from you.

You just don't get it. It's not about a piece of paper. It's about our continual slide into a police state. Ever hear the story about the frog and the boiling pot of water?

 

[FERLACH]

I dont worry much about selling or trading a long gun, but on a handgun that is registered to me, I want proof of where that gun went when it left my ownership. I have bought, sold, and traded guns for over 45 years. Twice I have had someone that got a handgun from me many years ago, contact me that there gun was stolen and the police recovered it. They wanted me to verify it was their gun and I had sold it to them. In both cases, I did not remember the gun or the person.