Modifications to carry weapon

[ryanmercer]

I agree they cannot pick ANY juror. They can, however, deny you from being a juror because you have experience with a situation. I was removed from a jury because I had medical experience and the lawyer was going to use medical testimony. I would have been a BETTER juror than anyone else, but I was chosen to leave. The same can happen with 2A rights. Does anyone here have guns? Yep. Thank you, you are dismissed. I think that is how that would go.

I'd argue that a jury of MY PEERS would be people LIKE ME, meaning people who OWN GUNS. Heh.

 

[ryanmercer]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the book In the Gravest Extreme:The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection By Massad Ayoob of Lethal Force Institute. It should be required reading before application for a carry permit. Unless you want to spend unnecessary time in jail and astronomical legal fees, I highly, highly sugggest plunking down $20 to (possibly) save yourself unmitigated grief!

12.95 new on amazon
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Gravest-Extreme-Firearm-Personal-Protection/dp/0936279001/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209599837&sr=8-2]Amazon.com: In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection: Massad F. Ayoob: Books[/ame]

Thanks for the recommend to, just ordered a copy.

 

[ryanmercer]

I would agree that there is nothing wrong with a light mounted on the handgun. It provides a tactical advantage, it alone can persuade a bad guy that he should stand down, so it could reasonably be considered a safety device.

hahaha nice.

 

[SavageEagle]

I love this Thread. Very informitive, somewhat off point at times, but just remember one thing. Indiana signed into law the Castle Doctrine. If someone breaks into your home, or attempts to car jack you, whatever gun you use will not matter. Only if they were trying to harm you and/or your family. If some guy breaks into my house and starts shooting, I can use a pellet gun or an AR-15 and be within my legal rights. Of course walking around in public and encounter an evil doer, there are many questions that you should ask yourself.... Unless, that is, some psycho or bank robber is shooting/threatening to shoot someone. A justified shooting is a justified shooting. If you end up in court, YOU BETTER HAVE A GOOD LAWYER and above all you better have followed the law to the letter or they will nail your aZZ to the wall.

BTW, I like the duct-tape-mounted light... I'd be scared and freak out!!! LOL

 

[younggun21]

This is way off topic but Savage is that the same $15 laser I used to have on my air-soft gun on your Sigma?????


-K

 

[Siderite]

Disposable Heart,
I've not had a chance to verify any of the cases, but Massad Ayoob posted a response to a similar question over on XDtalk citing several - link to his post.
XD Trigger work and CCW - Page 8 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!
Mas also comments in a long and convoluted thread on TheFiringLine:
Trigger liability questions - TheFiringLine Forums

the conclusion I got out of these is that a absolutely perfect self defense case shouldn't have issues with it, but for us mortals, it is best to keep things simple and avoid the legal battles if we can.

 

[indyninja]

This is way off topic but Savage is that the same $15 laser I used to have on my air-soft gun on your Sigma?????


-K

 

[Disposable Heart]

Disposable Heart,
I've not had a chance to verify any of the cases, but Massad Ayoob posted a response to a similar question over on XDtalk citing several - link to his post.
XD Trigger work and CCW - Page 8 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!
Mas also comments in a long and convoluted thread on TheFiringLine:
Trigger liability questions - TheFiringLine Forums

the conclusion I got out of these is that a absolutely perfect self defense case shouldn't have issues with it, but for us mortals, it is best to keep things simple and avoid the legal battles if we can.

Therein is the issue. The perfect case, muddled by imperfect prosecution lawyers. Plus, while in criminal court, I would be perfectly fine, in civil court, some low rent poor family will be gnashing their teeth and pulling hair in public and placing a value to a worthless human life I recently terminated in the backrooms. Sad, sad situation these civil courts are.

 

[melensdad]

Therein is the issue. The perfect case, muddled by imperfect prosecution lawyers. Plus, while in criminal court, I would be perfectly fine, in civil court, some low rent poor family will be gnashing their teeth and pulling hair in public and placing a value to a worthless human life I recently terminated in the backrooms. Sad, sad situation these civil courts are.

on all of that.

Further, I think we have to look at (at least) 2 different situations WHERE/WHEN a justified shooting takes place.

IF the shooting is in your home and you shoot the bad guy then I don't think you'd have much civil liability even if the gun had a 3-oz target trigger with no take up, a crisp break and zero over travel.

IF the shooting took place in a PUBLIC PLACE then dozens more factors would come into question (Were you out looking for trouble? Can you prove you were threatened? Why did you use deadly force? Why didn't you shoot to wound? Why is your gun called "THE PUNISHER" and why do you have all those evil looking graphics painted on it? Why do you carry a gun with a "hair trigger"? Could that extra light trigger pull have caused you to shoot when you only intended to "hold" my dead client at bay? . . . )

 

[melensdad]

 

[Siderite]

melensdad,
if you go back and read the links I posted, your "in the home" situation actually has issues too. Unethical lawyers will use a light trigger pull to try to get a charge of manslaughter (unintentional discharge), which counts as an 'accident' and thus in civil court they can go after your homeowner's liability insurance (deeper pockets than yours) that wouldn't cover an intentional act by you.

 

[melensdad]

Agreed, and I did review the links, however in Indiana we do have pretty good laws and even in a civil trial situation the homeowner in a justified shooting is going to be in much better standing than in a state like Illinois. I obviously cited an extreme example of an "in your home" scenario, but I'd feel comfortable picking up ANY gun inside my house to defend my life, be it a target grade gun, a shotgun, an elephant gun or a mouse gun. In that situation you don't necessarily have the luxury of time when you grab your gun, you may grab the gun that is in that room if it is loaded or if there is ammo for it in that room. With a carry gun you pick that out of the safe/locker each morning, you choose it with afore thought, you strap it on and you carry it with you. In your home you may be wiping the sleep out of your eyes after being woken up by an intruder at 2am.

 

[Siderite]

I have to agree with you there - unless you survive the attack (problem 1), there's no point in arguing about legal aftermath (problem 2) - you use what you have on hand to defend yourself.

 

[Disposable Heart]

That is sad that happens though. The prosecution will scream and moan, "my boy, my boy!" and how terrible it is that someone killed thier worthless (formalities aside, he broke in, I shot him, he wasnt there to sell magazines or candy) son. But then they scheme in backrooms and lawyer offices, trying to get the biggest bang for their buck off their dead and socity-draining progeny.

I am considering the purchase of a stock Glock 23 for just that purpose. "What modifications? What trigger?" Take that lawyer-face McLarsen! Cops take it as evidence, go ahead. More where that came from.

i am always concerned about a world where the dollar has more value than ethics, particularly in the case of lawyers. I know alot of good lawyers, however, its the rotted fruit contaminating the rest. I have respect for them as humans, but NEVER for their professional roles. Defense lawyers are great, however, when they start talking countersuit, sorry. You lost me there.

 

[finity]

"a good shoot is a good shoot".

In Indiana we have the Castle Doctrine & "Stand Your Ground" laws which protects someone from civil liability IF the person was found justified in the use of deadly force for lawful defense of self or others. IOW, If its a good shoot you can't be sued.

If you've been convicted of a bad shoot already, you have more to worry about than the financial costs imposed in the civil trial to follow.

In either case I don't see how the type of gun or mods will make that much difference.

 

[Shay]

Legal issues aside, most gun mods make the gun LESS reliable which kinda defeats the purpose of a defense gun...

Keep your gun stock. With the money you save from not having "action jobs" and titanium parts you can buy more ammo and take more training. That will matter much more in a fight for your life.

 

[bigcraig]

I agree Shay, but the factory sights on Glocks suck, and IMHO must be changed to something built that is more robust. I prefer Heine Slant Pros for rears and Dawson Precision fronts. (Although, I am considering trying the XS big dots because you speak highly of them.)

As far as trigger work, I put a LWD 3.5lb connector in all my Glocks and that is it. I have found far too much variation in trigger pulls from gun to gun, that I purposely put identical parts in all of them just for commonality.

Craig

 

[SavageEagle]

This is way off topic but Savage is that the same $15 laser I used to have on my air-soft gun on your Sigma?????


-K

LMAO Nah, but close! $30 NcSTAR from ebay! Its works so dont knock what works!

 

[Shay]

I agree Shay, but the factory sights on Glocks suck, and IMHO must be changed to something built that is more robust. I prefer Heine Slant Pros for rears and Dawson Precision fronts. (Although, I am considering trying the XS big dots because you speak highly of them.)

As far as trigger work, I put a LWD 3.5lb connector in all my Glocks and that is it. I have found far too much variation in trigger pulls from gun to gun, that I purposely put identical parts in all of them just for commonality.

Craig

I agree on OEM plastic Glock sights. They should be changed out for something steel and purposeful.

I disagree on the trigger work. Stock Glock triggers are fine. The only trigger work I recommend is more practice for the shooter. I could put a 12 pound trigger in a Force on Force Glock and you wouldn't be able to tell me how heavy the trigger was if you used it under stress.

 

[465guy]

melensdad on this forum likes to cite some FBI study he found but can't produce that the 1911 gives the best "first shot hit potential". Have you seen 1911s produce better results in force on force classes? Based on this post I'm thinking no.

I agree on OEM plastic Glock sights. They should be changed out for something steel and purposeful.

I disagree on the trigger work. Stock Glock triggers are fine. The only trigger work I recommend is more practice for the shooter. I could put a 12 pound trigger in a Force on Force Glock and you wouldn't be able to tell me how heavy the trigger was if you used it under stress.