Molon Labe: BANG!

[Libertarian01]

This is an extremely difficult topic, and from what I read, I think that we are actually close to the same position, but coming at it from opposite angles. My position is that confiscation should be so rare, so difficult, that it comes only at the point that we find the person to be demonstrably such a danger that the only option that is available is to put them in protective custody; i.e. the issues isn't the firearms, but the demonstrable fact that they post a legitimate risk of harm to themselves or others. Based on what Denny has provided, I am comforted that Indiana,, at least in the scope of what he sees, seems to be at or reasonably near this level of protection. This isn't solely about the RTKBA, in my mind, it is about the sovereignty of the individual over the state.

Right.
When I first posted I said something like, "I can support gun confiscation if if if if if if if..." and their brain somehow locked onto the supporting gun confiscation and didn't want to see all the if's. Because I said it out loud it caused much gnashing of teeth.

Then with the idea of EITHER gun confiscation OR forced psych ward evaluation I chose the confiscation route, again causing much gnashing of teeth. My point here was that if I am forced to eat a sandwich I would rather it be a White Castle than a Triple Big Mac.

My problem with this is let's say that I was at a family get together and spoke very depressingly about my spouse leaving me, my dog died, and my truck won't start. Other than being an old country western song I don't see a reason to go on living. I wouldn't mind my family being concerned and calling for my protection. Perhaps I need it, or perhaps they overreacted, but either way I was depressed and maybe it would have been for the best. HOWEVER, if I was with some of my more liberal family members and I said something like, "I'd rather blow my head off than have HRC as president" in a very flip manner and they actually called that in and Denny showed up with a purpose I would be severely agitated and wanting to call my lawyer and sue the hell out of that side of the family - no mercy!

Regrettably, we don't know which story line the deceased gentleman comes closer to. Was he truly a danger to himself or others, or was he just making a flip comment and an alleged sister wigged out over nothing, putting him in a situation that cost him his life?

Anytime rights are oppressed there should be extreme protections for the individual and the goal should be a minimal oppression both in severity and in temporal length.

Regards,

Doug

PS - Sorry to pick on ya Denny, nothing personal.

 

[2A_Tom]

Since the sister has recanted, I suspect it is this.

was he just making a flip comment and an alleged sister wigged out over nothing

 

[Libertarian01]

Since the sister has recanted, I suspect it is this.

was he just making a flip comment and an alleged sister wigged out over nothing

DID SHE!?!?!

I did not see this anywhere. Do you have a link please?

Thanks,

Doug

 

[2A_Tom]

I read it in this thread let me see if I can find it.

 

[JettaKnight]

Since the sister has recanted, I suspect it is this.

was he just making a flip comment and an alleged sister wigged out over nothing

There's no news report about this. (at least that I can find)

 

[2A_Tom]

I am sure that I read it. I am not that senile. I have tried to find it, but if it actually exists it has been buried.

I cannot remember the actual words, but it was something like, He was not really dangerous, Maybe she just reported that he was off his meds or something like that. I can find nothing to back it up.

In looking for it, I found out that Maryland has preformed about 140 orders since October.

 

[JettaKnight]

Purple.

Had Lanza been red flagged, I would not have had a problem. Had they confiscated his mother's weapons I would have pitched a fit.

I am sure that I read it. I am not that senile. I have tried to find it, but if it actually exists it has been buried.

I cannot remember the actual words, but it was something like, He was not really dangerous, Maybe she just reported that he was off his meds or something like that. I can find nothing to back it up.

In looking for it, I found out that Maryland has preformed about 140 orders since October.

Wow! The law went into effect Oct. 1, and there's been over two per day, on average, in tiny Maryland?

 

[Libertarian01]

Here is the problem that is faced with these numbers.

Let us presume that out of our entire population of 327 million+ a mere 1% are mentally ill. It is probably higher but I am being WAY conservative.

So we have 3,270,000 people with mental illness. Now let us presume that 90% are just disturbed, slightly depressed, etc. This 90% is not a threat, just having problems. That leaves 327,000 that are facing really bad issues, including being dangerous.

Now let us presume that out of those 327,000 really disturbed people only 10% ever get called in to LE or the courts for "forced intervention." That is 32,700 people either being taken to the psych ward for evaluation OR having their guns confiscated. Let us split them down the middle at 50/50.

So now we have 16,350 people having their guns taken away. Divide by 50 states and you'll average 327 per state per year. Or, 27 per month per state.

The problem is that my numbers are really low. According to several basic links I found the number of people suffering from mental illness each year is around 20%! Some of it will go away, like postpartum depression. Most will live with it or get help and control it.

But a few, a special few, won't seek help, won't want to be reasonable (their right, not pushing for a nanny state too much). They will become dangerous. They will blame their problems on the ______X's_______. They will begin to see danger everywhere, and their special mental illness will become a threat to everyone that is available to them to vent their frustration on.

A lot of time people suffering from mental illness don't vent out in big ways, so it isn't noticed. How many women, and a few men, have been murdered because their ex stalked them and couldn't stand the idea of being pushed aside? Most folks break up, cry (or rejoice), drown their sorrows in booze for awhile (or party hard for awhile) and get over it. Some, mostly guys, are NOT going to let her get away with whatever. And women die. To my thinking this is mental illness. And it never gets looked at like this because it's only one (1) death. Tragic, but only one (1). He gets convicted, her family buries her, his family visits him in jail, and perhaps many dozens of lives are shaken up because no one intervened on him. And the media doesn't focus on it like the Las Vegas shooting because it is only one (1) person.

Anyway, I've rambled enough here. We have people with real problems all around us and I thank all the law enforcement folks for dealing with them so the rest of us can sleep better. Thank you!

Regards,

Doug

 

[Thor]

The solution is taking responsibility for your own defense, not asking the government to be responsible for it...but that also requires the government allowing you to defend yourself against the crazy.

MD is a cesspool of nanny state tyranny, they would confiscate everyone's weapons if they thought they could get away with it. If passing through the area it is illegal for you to transport a weapon, even unloaded, disassembled and locked in the trunk, through the state. When they run your out of state plates they will cross reference your larry to it and just check to see.

 

[alabasterjar]

Can anyone explain to me how this actual, real case is different than the discussion here: Turn Them In or Get Nuked

In the "Turn Them In or Get Nuked" thread, ''Molon Labe" is directly or indirectly being thrown around pretty causally. I agree completely, by the way, but explain to me why this case is so substantially different. Seriously, I'm not trying to be an @$$hat (although my wife might argue, it's a pre-existing condition).

The actual facts in this case are desperately wanting. There may be details that clearly set this apart from the turn them in or get nuked scenario, but so far, I have not seen anything suggesting this is the case. Again, I am not criticizing LEO. From what I've read, it sounds like LEO was executing lawful orders (no pun intended); but that doesn't mean they were executing Constitutional orders.

Where does the rubber meet the road? Seriously... If state.gov wants to remove all of your semi-auto rifles, how does that actually happen? It won't be by nuke, it will be by a city, county, or state LEO. Based on the turn them in or get nuked thread, the proper response is Molon Labe.

So which is it?

More information - and a much better articulation of what I was tying to say on the Firearms Policy Coalition channel...
Man Shot for Resisting Red Flag Gun Confiscation #WeToldYouSo

[video=youtube_share;l_MP4vo5yOE]http://youtu.be/l_MP4vo5yOE[/video]

 

[2A_Tom]

https://freedomoutpost.com/republican-rep-introduced-minority-report-gun-confiscation-bill/

[h=1]Republican Rep. Introduced "Minority Report" Gun Confiscation Bill[/h]

 

[Thor]

Blargh! Thankfully that went nowhere in IN...even so Ms Brooks should be run out of the state on a rail, tar and feathered.

 

[dudley0]

Blargh! Thankfully that went nowhere in IN...even so Ms Brooks should be run out of the state on a rail, tar and feathered.

Thought crime... better give all your guns to me before they come take you away.