I've never hunted white tail with the .44 mag yet, but deer aren't built any heavier than people. If you place the shot right, some people like lung shots, some like to take out the shoulders, I'd think pretty much any good .44 mag soft point or hollow point would have no problem with a deer. From what I read it's a popular deer round. I hope to try it myself. I'll be using the Leverevolution because I have plenty of it, and it's accurate in this gun. I'd just get what feeds good and shoots accurately.
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My lever action defensive rife or "Cowboy assault rifle" if you will...
- Thread starter daddyusmaximus
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I've never hunted white tail with the .44 mag yet, but deer aren't built any heavier than people. If you place the shot right, some people like lung shots, some like to take out the shoulders, I'd think pretty much any good .44 mag soft point or hollow point would have no problem with a deer. From what I read it's a popular deer round. I hope to try it myself. I'll be using the Leverevolution because I have plenty of it, and it's accurate in this gun. I'd just get what feeds good and shoots accurately.
A friend of mine uses a marlin 44 mag, basically the same thing you have. He has no trouble putting down deer. He shot one a few years ago basically from the hip after he jumped it and it went down fine. You should be good, especially with the leverevolution rounds.
Everyone these days seems to think if it won't shoot sub moa groups, and if it isn't capable of firing 2,000 rounds in fast succession the rifle is junk. More power to you buddy.
My motto is learn to shoot what you have, and get what you like. Most rifles being made are capable of shooting as good as the person holding them. Too many blame it on the equipment...
Whenever 44mags come up in discussion for hunting bullets the most common answer out there is typically a 240gr Hornady XTP. I've killed two bucks with this bullet and it will absolutely do the job if you put the bullet in the right spot. Whether you reloaded the round or bought the factory ammo, that's a good bullet for stopping a deer.
I'm not talking about going to war and neither is Kirk. I'm talking about training and practicing. Defensive rifle classes routinely shoot that much in three days.
If I'm going to use a tool specifically for defense, I want to train with that tool or one substantially similar to it. Going to classes and practicing with an AR or AK and then expecting to be able to use a lever gun with a similar level of efficiency is not something I could accomplish. If someone else can, they're pretty cool!
Based on how we live, if I have to use a gun for defense, it's probably going to be a handgun. I spend time training and practicing with that gun, which is a self-loading pistol that holds 18+1 or 20+1 rounds of 9mm. Could a Colt SAA in .45 Colt be a viable defensive tool? Sure, but I'm not going to be able to use it properly without a lot of rounds through it first.
There's nothing inherently wrong with using a lever gun for defense if the need arises. But people have to recognize that there are limitations to those designs that limit what you can do with them. One of those is that they are not well suited to the high volumes of fire that are typical of defensive training. If you don't need to practice with it, then it's not a big deal. Pretty simple.
I'm basing this on the handful of lever guns I've seen become unusable on the first day of rifle classes (including the very first carbine class I did with Louis Awerbuck). There may be ways to modify lever guns to make them more durable. There is a guy on INGO who teaches a lever gun defense class and I think he and some of his colleagues carry lever guns in their police cars. He probably knows something I do not. Or, they may also not fire a lot of rounds. I know that cowboy shooter push their lever guns pretty hard, but most of them are using modified guns and very lightly loaded .38 special and .45 colt loads that would be unsuitable for defense. They may know something I do not.
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It is one of the many choices I keep handy...along with a Model 92 in .45 Colt...and I had them both to the range this past week. Not my only choice, but one.
It is one of the many choices I keep handy...along with a Model 92 in .45 Colt...and I had them both to the range this past week. Not my only choice, but one.
Clint Smith does regular classes with SAA and clones! Very cool guns and if you get something like a Ruger Vaquero, virtually indestructible.
I used 240 grain WWB soft points for years. They always worked fine. I wanted to "roll my own" so I tried Nosler 240 grain soft points. They also did well. I always try to shoot broadside through the ribs. With this shot it would not matter what bullet you used. However, with angled shots, you frequently hit bones in the shoulder. One of the Nosler bullets traveled through the shoulder and I recovered it just in front of the ham on the other side just under the skin. The bullet did separate, but the wound channel was large and the deer was quite dead. Most any 44 mag bullet will work, but most are designed for pistol velocities, and can over expand at rifle velocities. I found some Sierra bullets I wanted to try. I believe they are bonded. Over the last 28 years of taking deer, the 44 mag has definitely become my favorite whitetail rifle. I hunt in the woods and shots are generally 10 to 75 yards.
Like everything else, each one has an issue somewhere. With 1866/1873/1876 Winchesters it's the locking levers wearing, with Marlins it's the carrier cam. The 1886, 1892 and 1895 all hold up pretty well although the 1895 magazine spring gets weak. On heavy bullet cartridges like the 405 WCF it won't hold the bullet end of the cartridge up high enough to chamber.
You're right, these classes can be as brutal on equipment as combat.
However, if you look at the number of people who take those kind of intensive classes, and the number of gun owners, you'll see that a very large portion of gun owners do informal training on a weekend, evening, or day off in the woods, back 40, local range... These grass roots gun owners don't have the time or money to blow through 1,000 rounds at a time. I train with my guns too, but I may only shoot 200 rounds through one gun, 30 or 40 through another, 75 through one, then it's time to go home, but I'll be back when I have more time, or more ammo.
Those killer training classes are also brutal on shooters, depending on what they're running. While I could easily shoot 1,000 rounds through my AR in a weekend, and it not bother me. (if I could afford to blow through that much ammo at once) I'm not sure my old shoulders (or even other peoples young shoulders) would like to shoot a lever gun 1,000 times in a weekend, with no recoil system to soften the blow...
Thanks Leadeye. What kind of round count are we talking about with a Marlin 1894 in 44 mag to wear out a carrier cam? If I were to guess, in the last 10 years, I might have put 400 rounds through it. Definitely less than 500. I always shoot it before deer season and occasionally I shoot it just for fun. Surprisingly it shoots cast 44 specials very well.
That's a good question and Leadeye responded!
My answer is: I don't know. I've only seen them start as a functional weapon, then become inoperable. I was not privy to the details. So I apologize if my messages made it seem like I think I know much about lever actions, because I do not. I'm just reporting my anecdotes (which correspond to observations by a few others who have seen them in classes) of failures that I did not see anywhere near as often (percentage-wise) with ARs or pretty much ever with AKs.
In addition to Leadeye, it would be good if some of the cowboy action shooters weighed-in, as well as the police chief from Tennessee who carries a lever gun in his car and teaches classes specifically
for using lever guns for self-defense.
Update... Probably gonna get flamed for this... but I added a light to my .44mag Rossi 92. It's the Streamlight Protac Rail Mount 1 on a Haley Strategic Thorntail mount. In combination with the Romeo 5 already there, this should finish the gun off nicely.
I still retain the good balance and one handed carry leverguns are famous for.
Streamlight must have known what I was gonna do. They include a perfect size set of little screws for mounting the switch on plastic or wood stocks.
I zip-tied the wire up so as not to have it resting on the barrel.
I still retain the good balance and one handed carry leverguns are famous for.
Streamlight must have known what I was gonna do. They include a perfect size set of little screws for mounting the switch on plastic or wood stocks.
I zip-tied the wire up so as not to have it resting on the barrel.
Looks good to me a defensive weapon IMO needs a light with the exception of small CC handguns where a person would use a handheld.
A quick handling lever carbine in .44 mag with a red dot and light is fine for 98% of situations one might find themselves. Would it be something I would want to take to a carbine class and rip 800-1000 rounds off in a week end, no. Is it a great truck gun yes I would have used it last night when out roaming the county roads checking some game cams.
The fact of a weapons gap between the single shot to the bolt action and the auto still mystifies me. The hierarchy of the military didn’t want a individual to have the capability of rapid fire due to the belief of wasted ammo from what I know. It still seems unreasonable to me that while lever and pump action weapons existed none of the major armies adopted them in large numbers. The wall of fire that a unit armed with full sized lever actions with a rate of fire of 20+ a minute compared to 15,ish for a bolt action the M1 was about 22 rpm seems that the lever action had a advantage.
BTW Good article!
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/lever-action-rifles-for-self-defense/
A quick handling lever carbine in .44 mag with a red dot and light is fine for 98% of situations one might find themselves. Would it be something I would want to take to a carbine class and rip 800-1000 rounds off in a week end, no. Is it a great truck gun yes I would have used it last night when out roaming the county roads checking some game cams.
The fact of a weapons gap between the single shot to the bolt action and the auto still mystifies me. The hierarchy of the military didn’t want a individual to have the capability of rapid fire due to the belief of wasted ammo from what I know. It still seems unreasonable to me that while lever and pump action weapons existed none of the major armies adopted them in large numbers. The wall of fire that a unit armed with full sized lever actions with a rate of fire of 20+ a minute compared to 15,ish for a bolt action the M1 was about 22 rpm seems that the lever action had a advantage.
BTW Good article!
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/lever-action-rifles-for-self-defense/
Great post OP. Love my Rossi .357 octagon 20". I have the color case hardened receiver as well. It had done me wonders for whitetail hunting. Killed my biggest buck to date with it.
Will probably upgrade to a Skinner sight in the future.
Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
Will probably upgrade to a Skinner sight in the future.
Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
