Nagant cleaning/care

[Moparracer89]

I have a M44 Nagant and love it, its a great shooter. After every range I clean and scrub and clean the bore some more. Problem is I'm still getting surface rust days later. Ive even tried lightly oiling the bore but no luck. What is the preferred cleaning method to prevent this bore rust?

 

[Hawkwind2112]

I am posting a few links to rust prevention tests. It turns out that some gun oils and solvents are not good at all for preventing rust. I would try some Break Free CLP as it scores high on the tests and is easy to find most anywhere.

RUST TEST GUN OIL
Gun Lubricant Corrosion Tests - The Firearm Blog
The Gun Zone -- Corrosion Test

 

[prescut]

I have been shooting Mosins for years and I clean with Windex immediately after every firing. This is a classic method used by most Mosin owners. Yes, I know what you're thinking, but it really is just Windex. Look up cleaning Mosin Nagant on Google. The ammo is corrosive and will start rust almost immediately after firing. There is non corrosive 7.62 x 54r, but it is very expensive compared to $.22 normal price. I understand that it is the primer that creates the problem and makes it next to impossible to reload. Not that you really need to get carried away, after all, the russians have used it for over a 120 years and you know damn well that soldiers didn't have cleaning kits all the time. There is a lot of them with dark bores.

Always get the cosmoline out completely before firing. The cosmoline will harden with high temperature and make it tough to feed ammo and operate consistently. Get a stainless steel barrel brush and you can it get shiny to start with. Then just keep it clean and I love the suggestion about CLP as a protectant.

Love those Mosins.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I also use Windex (actually it's windshield washer/wiper fluid). Really all that is needed is plain water to neutralize the corrosive salts. Either way, give it a rinse as soon as you're done shooting at the range, then clean normally after you get home. The reason I prefer the windshield washer fluid is that it contains surfactants that aid in cleaning a little more than water, making it easier to clean at home. I just take a cleaning rod and some patches with me to the range and I use the little oiler bottle that comes with most Mosins to store the fluid. A couple of soaked patches while the barrel is still hot, and you should be good to go until you get the rifle home. I also use Breakfree CLP after cleaning with Hoppes.

 

[lmyer]

I have a M44 Nagant and love it, its a great shooter. After every range I clean and scrub and clean the bore some more. Problem is I'm still getting surface rust days later. Ive even tried lightly oiling the bore but no luck. What is the preferred cleaning method to prevent this bore rust?

Potassium Chloride residue comes from Potassium Chlorate being used as the oxidizer in the primers in old milsurp ammo. This is what makes the ammunition corrosive. Lead Styphnate among others are used in the more modern non-corrosive primers we now are used to.

I'm guessing in that you are simply spreading the KCl from the corrosive ammo around during your cleaning process and not getting it out. This is usually when a person cleans without a tight fitting jag/patch or reuses a patch more than one trip down the barrel. Although I handload for mine, I used to shoot milsurp ammo so I know what you are talking about.

Of course, water or windex or soap solution down the bore certainly can help remove corrosive salts - but it technically isn't absolutely necessary. However, I can say that if you don't get all the KCl out during your cleaning process, putting water in the bore will make it rust worse than if you did not use water at all. Sorry, but water or Windex and bore solvents as well do not neutralize or deactivate KCl (I'm a Chemist). So get all the salt out or don't use water at all.

On the other hand, some people successfully use regular bore solvents to clean up after corrosive ammo. When this works it is because of friction removing the KCl particles. Bore solvents do not dissolve KCl unless they are water based.

The bottom line is that either way, friction is your friend. IMHO the key to successfully cleaning up after corrosive ammo is (after whatever water, windex, treatment that you choose or none at all) multiple tight cotton patches on a jag with bore solvent or Kroil, pushed through from the breech and only pushed once through the bore before disposal. I'm talking about patches that are tight enough to break most 3-piece cheapo aluminum rods. I use a bore guide with solvent port from Possum Hollow and a 1-piece Dewey coated steel rod with a Dewey jag. I like 2-3 patches of Kroil for most cleanings because I then don't have to oil (my storage is humidity controlled) and I finish up with a couple of dry patches. When I occasionally want to cut copper I use multiple patches of Butch's Bore Shine until clean, followed by Kroil.

I only would use a brush during initial cleaning of a rifle after purchase. This is because after shooting, all a brush does is spread corrosive residue and other crud into the cartridge area and receiver when you pull it back through the barrel. I wouldn't worry about getting white patches out of a frosty bore Mosin during regular cleanings. Nice to take it down to bare metal once when you first get a rifle, but you will do more damage than good trying to clean a frosty bore to this level each time.

When you are lucky enough to find a Mosin (or other milsurp) with a pristine mirror bore, cleaning becomes SO MUCH easier and they tend to be much more accurate. In my opinion these rifles deserve non-corrosive ammo and can benefit from handloads. Such rifles are definitely not the norm, but they are out there. Myself, I don't bother with frosty bores any more and am proud to say that all 21 members of my Milsurp collection have pristine bores.

So good luck with your cleaning and enjoy your M44. p.s. a Nagant is a pistol. You have a Mosin or a Mosin-Nagant.

Les

 

[looney2ns]

What is a frosty bore?

 

[lmyer]

What is a frosty bore?

?????? RU serious? It's a bore with grooves that no longer have the original mirror-like surface. They have become microscopically pitted by corrosion and what-not so they appear dull and frosty looking.

 

[tk71]

+1 windex with ammonia after shooting then hoppes #9 then gun oil or clp

 

[johntheplinker]

I'm glad to see lmyer stating that the KCL is not neutralized. The water dissolves it, and then flushes it out. If you did neutralize the KCl, your barrel would be destroyed.

Also, a lot of folks think it is the ammonia in windex that works. Nope. KCl dissolves is water several hundred times better than in ammonia, and there is less than 2% ammonia in windex.

What do I use? Hot soapy water, then clean as normal.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

If you're using windex... You're wasting your money. Quit using it unless you want to waste your money.

It's 95-97% WATER. Water water water water. Water is what you want to dissolve and flush out the corrosive salts.

Quit using ammonia. It's useless as a solvent for these purposes. It will. not. dissolve. these. corrosive. salts. You're wasting your money using ammonia. (Use it for copper fouling - sure)

WATER WATER WATER WATER is what you need to dissolve them. And to flush them out.

THEN you have to get rid of the water. That's a big deal. This is, perhaps, part of the issue with the surface rusting. Plus it's humid in Indiana for half the year or better.

OP - how do you store your firearms? Have a dehumidifier in your safe?

 

[lmyer]

I don't use Windex (or water) nor do I believe the ammonia does anything for cleaning KCl out of gun bores - but to be fair to those that do use it, Windex has some surfactants in it that might help with cleaning in general and the spray bottle would be handy. To each their own...... I'm sure there are many ways to accomplish the same goal. OP just needs to pick one that works for him.

Les

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

Hoppes #9, enough said.

Not only will it eat away any rusting you're currently experiencing, it will coat the bore in a nice, even layer to prevent future rusting.

I use it religiously on my 91/30, and its performed 110 percent of what I'd ask it to

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

here's a good link to a guy's systematic approach to determining which gun oils are the best rust preventatives: The Gun Zone -- Corrosion Test

 

[tk71]

I use windex because the ammonia helps it to evaporate faster than just water.

 

[lmyer]

I use windex because the ammonia helps it to evaporate faster than just water.

Think the alcohol in Windex is what makes it evaporate faster. Ammonia in current Windex is just for cleaning purposes.

From Wiki:

When Windex was invented in 1933 by Harry R. Drackett, it was almost 100% solvent. It was highly flammable and had to be sold in metal cans. When modern surfactants were introduced after World War II, the product was reformulated. Windex was a 5% ammonia solution in 1989.

(but it's not the same stuff anymore)

More recently:

The Sam Wise patent #3,463,735 lists example formulae, one of which is 4.0% isopropyl alcohol (a highly volatile solvent) 1% ethylene glycol monobutyl ether (a less volatile solvent), 0.1% sodium lauryl sulfate (a surfactant), 0.01% tetrasodium pyrophosphate (a water softener), 0.05% of 28% ammonia, 1% of a dye solution, and 0.01% perfume. This formula was not only less expensive to manufacture, but allowed the product to be packaged in glass bottles and dispensed with a plastic sprayer

This formula would be 0.14% ammonia - not much ammonia to evaporate.

 

[lmyer]

here's a good link to a guy's systematic approach to determining which gun oils are the best rust preventatives: The Gun Zone -- Corrosion Test

Yeah, I've seen that before! Agree it is pretty good testing. I don't use Kroil as a rust inibitor, but I do like it as a general every time bore cleaner as it does a pretty good job with powder residue. I also follow any copper removing bore solvents used with Kroil. With humidy controlled storage I have not had any trouble with rusting of rifles that I shoot regularly - but then again I am handloading and not putting water in my bores. I'm guess I'm happier spending my time making ammo, and spending less time worrying about cleaning my rifles. Don't have much use for milsurp ammo at a savings of $6.00/20 rounds. I only shoot 20 through each rifle, each time to the range. I believe in quality not quantity!

However, another grease/oil that has passed such testing with flying colors is RIG Gun grease. I like to put a film of it on all inaccessible metal parts after disassembling and cleaning off any cosmoline/gunk with mineral oil (wipe RIG on with fingers/wipe off with towel) to prevent rust under the wood and in inaccessible places. One point of typical non-bore rust on a Mosin is the sear screw threads (a little extra RIG takes care of that). If I store for extended lengths of time without shooting, I coat bores with RIG using a bore mop.

Another good one reported has been Penn Reel Grease. I think it makes sense as it was made for salt water fishing reels!

So, Moparracer89 - we haven't heard from you since you started this thread! What do you think? Thoroughly confused?????? Just remember that everyone whose Mosin hasn't rusted is right!! Many ways to do it - but you need to change something. Pick one and try it until you are successful!

 

[lmyer]

I understand that it is the primer that creates the problem and makes it next to impossible to reload.

You just can't reload the berdan primed steel cases seen in Milsurp 7.62x54r. Boxer primed 7.62x54r brass like Privi, Lapua, Norma, Winchester are perfectly reloadable. I use both Privi and Lapua brass myself. Norma is ultra-expensive, and I have heard Winchester is supposed to be only good for a few reloads - but I have no real experience there. Popular way to get reloadable 7.62x54r brass is to buy Privi ammo at about $13.50/20, shoot it, and then reload it. Privi brass is a little thinner than Lapua and the primer pockets are slightly deep - but this is only a problem when cleaning primer pockets. Otherwise it seems to perform fine and is decent quality brass. Empty new Lapua brass costs about $1.00/case (pretty expensive) but it is premium brass. If you segregate and neck size your brass, you can get >25 reloads out of a Privi case before the neck gets too thin and splits. Of course periodic annealing would help and how much your die works your brass is also a factor.

It should be noted that reloading high power rifle ammo costs about $0.50/round in consumables, not to mention the cost of the equipment. So if cheap is your goal this is not for you. But you can make MUCH better ammo than the typical milsurp that everyone is shooting. Heck, I think you can make much better ammo than anything you can buy, but at some point you start spending a lot of time on it. Reloading needs be an enjoyable hobby and not a chore!

 

[Moparracer89]

Shot my Mosin today, flushed with water then cleaned with Hoppes and CLP. We'll see how in looks in a day or two.

 

[looney2ns]

?????? RU serious? It's a bore with grooves that no longer have the original mirror-like surface. They have become microscopically pitted by corrosion and what-not so they appear dull and frosty looking.

Yes. We are not born with all gun knowledge, at least I wasn't.

 

[lmyer]

I just thought that someone with 1700 posts would probably know what a frosty bore was. Sorry if that offended you. I did try to give a serious answer. I suppose if you aren't into Milsurp rifles you may be unfamiliar with the term "frosty bore". Most of them have at least some degree of frosting.