I don't deny the ignorance on their part, in fact it's what I was pointing toward. Not to Godwin, but to make a similar example, the Nazis didn't view anyone other than "Aryans" as worthy of treatment as humans. In our Founders' time, the others would have been the indigenous "Indians", Black people, women, and probably many other groups I'm not naming because I've made enough of a point with those.
It's not completely either stupidity or ignorance. What it is is simple ethnocentrism (and while you know the term, for any who might not, it means that you view your group, your culture, etc., as better than others. Abe Lincoln displayed it during the debates with Stephen Douglas,
Hell, even in 1858, he referred to "negroes" and the "Black race", but did so in counter to a reference to "White people" when it came to miscegenation. Was he a racist? Possibly/probably.
Further, and I don't have the reference, but I seem to recall hearing that the first slave owners were other Black people, and that the traders simply took advantage of a market already in existence, with the demand being here and the supply being provided by the locals who captured or otherwise enslaved their own people and sold them for profit. If that's true, who was truly denying people their rights?
Lastly, I'm glad to see you referring to them as God-given rights: Previously, I've seen you deny that anything comes from a God in whom you've expressed disbelief.
ETA: No, you didn't directly bring up slavery, that's true. You did mention a generality that, based on your previous statements on INGO, inferred the enslaved Black people at the time of the Founding. Please don't play innocent on that point, Kut. It's disingenuous at best to do so.
Blessings,
Bill
It's not completely either stupidity or ignorance. What it is is simple ethnocentrism (and while you know the term, for any who might not, it means that you view your group, your culture, etc., as better than others. Abe Lincoln displayed it during the debates with Stephen Douglas,
(emphasis mine))I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races — that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
Hell, even in 1858, he referred to "negroes" and the "Black race", but did so in counter to a reference to "White people" when it came to miscegenation. Was he a racist? Possibly/probably.
Further, and I don't have the reference, but I seem to recall hearing that the first slave owners were other Black people, and that the traders simply took advantage of a market already in existence, with the demand being here and the supply being provided by the locals who captured or otherwise enslaved their own people and sold them for profit. If that's true, who was truly denying people their rights?
Lastly, I'm glad to see you referring to them as God-given rights: Previously, I've seen you deny that anything comes from a God in whom you've expressed disbelief.
ETA: No, you didn't directly bring up slavery, that's true. You did mention a generality that, based on your previous statements on INGO, inferred the enslaved Black people at the time of the Founding. Please don't play innocent on that point, Kut. It's disingenuous at best to do so.
Blessings,
Bill
I wasnt going to specify who I referring, because it encompassed a much larger group, than just slaves. But to address that one facet Bill, simply put, that the slaves weren't human, excuse, is chalked full of intellectual dishonesty. Unlike a computer, no one created men held in bondage from nothing into something. To believe that the Founders honestly held that slaves weren't "real" men, seriously undermines their intelligence and subsequent thought. Do you think they were honestly that stupid? And if they weren't stupid, then most assuredly they were ignorant on a massive scale. And even if you deny either, it is clear that their concept of "rights," was severely flawed. However, they weren't stupid nor ignorant. They knew exactly what they were doing, and that is denying people their God given rights.
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