Need Help for Sister

[Scout103]

Hey y'all,

I had another question for all you members.

This Christmas my younger sister will be getting her LTCH work started, I am walking her through all this and getting her into carrying. She is in college and so she does not have the money for a handgun. She's not 21 yet either, so my thoughts were that I would just buy her one. Is that legal for me to do?

I've read that anyone that has an LTCH, but is not yet 21 can buy a handgun in a private sale. Would that be how we go about doing this?

Thanks for the help y'all.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

When purchasing it, just buy it as though it's for you. Problem solved. Then you gift it to her later. I've done that for my girlfriend. She was 20 at the time.

I made the mistake of saying "Well I'm getting this for..." when I was looking at firearms, and they guy there said "You can't do that. It's for you." So, a subtle reminder. Otherwise she'd have to be present.


Edit: Now, aside from your question - It's best for someone to pick their own firearm. They should find what feels good for them.

 

[Jack Burton]

It is perfectly legal to buy a gun and gift someone else with it, whether you do it a hour later or five years later.

Assuming that your sister is eliligible to have a gun (which the LTC would denote) then buying her a gun is a wonderful present. It would be best to let her pick it out, though.

You can also buy it, and then sell it to her later.

What you CANNOT do, is take her money from her, and then buy the gun for her. It has to be your money, your gun. If the FFL is to incompetent to understand the ATF gifting rules I would shop in another store. He's probably to incompetent to understand other important stuff also.

It should be no different in the store than letting her pick out the ring she wants, and you buying it for her. Just make it clear that YOU are the one paying for it, and not her.

I''ve bought my wife and kids guns before when the FFL knew exactly that, and there was never a problem.

 

[Sylvain]

Hey y'all,

I had another question for all you members.

This Christmas my younger sister will be getting her LTCH work started, I am walking her through all this and getting her into carrying. She is in college and so she does not have the money for a handgun. She's not 21 yet either, so my thoughts were that I would just buy her one. Is that legal for me to do?

I've read that anyone that has an LTCH, but is not yet 21 can buy a handgun in a private sale. Would that be how we go about doing this?

Thanks for the help y'all.

Anyone that is 18 can buy a handgun in a private sale, not need to even have a LTCH.


You can buy a handgun and then decide to gift it to your sister.

 

[Mark 1911]

If the legal age is 18, why not just gift her the $$ and let her make the purchase and fill out the form?

 

[Mark 1911]

Edited

 

[Sylvain]

If the legal age is 18, why not just gift her the $$ and let her make the purchase and fill out the form?

It's 21 if she buys from a FFL.

 

[Mark 1911]

It's 21 if she buys from a FFL.

Got it. You're. Too fast for this smartphone

 

[HavokCycle]

gifting avoids the straw purchase laws?

 

[Sylvain]

gifting avoids the straw purchase laws?

Same way you can buy guns to gift your kids without it being a straw purchase.

 

[wolfman]

gifting avoids the straw purchase laws?

First of all, if you purchase the gun "With The Intent" or knowing "Prior To The Purchase" that you will be selling the gun or giving it away, it IS a straw purchase.
But
If you like a gun, purchase it for yourself, then decide you no longer want it, you can dispose of it in any legal manner you wish.

Having the future owner present at the purchase would also be a bad idea. Remember, there is a question on the form that asks if you are purchasing the gun for someone else. Answer yes, and they can not legaly sell you the gun, answer no, and someone hears you talking about giving it away, and you could have some expensive legal problems.

 

[Sylvain]

First of all, if you purchase the gun "With The Intent" or knowing "Prior To The Purchase" that you will be selling the gun or giving it away, it IS a straw purchase.
But
If you like a gun, purchase it for yourself, then decide you no longer want it, you can dispose of it in any legal manner you wish.

Having the future owner present at the purchase would also be a bad idea. Remember, there is a question on the form that asks if you are purchasing the gun for someone else. Answer yes, and they can not legaly sell you the gun, answer no, and someone hears you talking about giving it away, and you could have some expensive legal problems.

I believe you can buy it for a spouse.Not sure if it's true, I heard it from a FFL.
In that case I believe that you can say you're buying the gun for your spouse (if legally married and he/she can legally own a gun).

 

[CTS]

You're better off not mentioning that you're buying it as a gift though. Even though it's legal some stores will refuse to sell once they know that.

 

[inccwchris]

First of all, if you purchase the gun "With The Intent" or knowing "Prior To The Purchase" that you will be selling the gun or giving it away, it IS a straw purchase.
But
If you like a gun, purchase it for yourself, then decide you no longer want it, you can dispose of it in any legal manner you wish.

Having the future owner present at the purchase would also be a bad idea. Remember, there is a question on the form that asks if you are purchasing the gun for someone else. Answer yes, and they can not legaly sell you the gun, answer no, and someone hears you talking about giving it away, and you could have some expensive legal problems.

Guy Relford was covering this in his Indiana Gun Law class on Sat just before I had to head out to set up the range.

There is no such question on the form

It asks if you are the actual transferee of the firearm. Yes equals go, no equals no go. Heck it actually says on the definitions part of the form that if you are buying the gun as a gift you are considered the lawful transferee. You sir, are incorrect.

see for reference
Instruction 1, ATF F 4473).

 

[Jack Burton]

First of all, if you purchase the gun "With The Intent" or knowing "Prior To The Purchase" that you will be selling the gun or giving it away, it IS a straw purchase.

This is simply not true and is good reason why taking legal advice over the 'net is both dangerous and not fruitful.

 

[SERparacord]

When I was recently selling guns along the border the feds didn't seem to mind.

 

[Scout103]

So let me post this question to y'all. As she is gone 3/4 of the year at school, I would be using it as my Back up Gun. Would it be just as simple to buy it for myself and just let her borrow it during the summer when she's back home?

 

[Dwight]

So let me post this question to y'all. As she is gone 3/4 of the year at school, I would be using it as my Back up Gun. Would it be just as simple to buy it for myself and just let her borrow it during the summer when she's back home?

Dude, are you married?

I always use the old - "Let me buy you a gun" approach - when I want a new toy!!

 

[Mark 1911]

Dude, are you married?

I always use the old - "Let me buy you a gun" approach - when I want a new toy!!

Great strategy, but make sure you get one you really like just in case it only works once.

 

[Newg]

Follow this link to view the ATF's PDF version of the 4473. http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

On page 1 of the above PDF version of the 4473 read question 11a. which is shown below in its exact form;
Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. (See instructions for Question 11.a.) Exception: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.

Then go to page 4 of the above PDF and read the "instructions for Question 11.a" which are shown below in their exact form;
Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the
firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing
the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer “NO” to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to
Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the
firearm and should answer “YES” to question 11.a. However, you may not
transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to
believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), (n), or (x). Please note:
EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person,
you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.

So, based on the assumption that your sister is not prohibited from owning a firearm, you can buy her a firearm as a gift without lying or performing any circus tricks. She can even pick it out. If the FFL gives you trouble, tell him to read the d@mn form!