Need Help Please with Gewehr 88

[IndyMedic]

I haven't posted on here in quite a while but I just took a gun on trade and thought you guys could be a big help in getting info on it.

It's an 1888 commission rifle marked on top of the receiver with "S" a crown Spandau 1891. If I try and shoot this thing what ammo should I buy. I have read 8mm lighter loads but I've read contradicting info also. I would not be shooting this often by the way.

I have identified the ID codes on the gun but am confused about one of them. The marking is 19.P.E.3.189. Is the E for eisenbahn or ersatz. There are 2 other codes like this. One is also on the top barrel band and the other is on the center barrel band. So does this mean it was issued three different times? If so which was the first issue? These numbers are all marked over with an X. I'm guessing that was done by the Turks?

So in general I am wondering what year this gun was used and what wars this gun was used in? The sn is 8676
What would be an estimated value of this gun. I would say it's in fair to good condition.

Thanks guys

 

[BogWalker]

It is chambered for 8mm Mauser using a .323 diameter bullet. It is wise to use lighter loads with these rifles as they have only two locking lugs rather than the three of the Mauser 98.

http://www.bayerischewaffen.de/daten/trstemp.pdf Here's some decent info on unit markings.

Are there any Turkish markings on it?

The Gewehr 88 would have seen second line service in Germany in WWI. If Turk refurbed doing the war it also would have seen service with them.

 

[IndyMedic]

It is chambered for 8mm Mauser using a .323 diameter bullet. It is wise to use lighter loads with these rifles as they have only two locking lugs rather than the three of the Mauser 98.

The marking you're not sure about is a unit issue marking. I do not know enough to decipher it. What are the other two codes? They could be marks of older issue, or they could be marks concurrently added during the same issue.

Are there any Turkish markings on it?

Gewehr 88 didn't get a lot of use by the Germans. If it is a Turkish refurb it may have seen service in WWI.

The other unit markings are as follows. 91.r.12.127 and 39.r.r.388. I found a site that had the codes and what they meant. But the E said it was eisen bahn or if it was used with another letter it meant ersatz. But I'm not sure it this pertains to this unit issue or not.

From what I have read it seems to be a Turk refurb. The bolt has a c or half moon with a.diamond and a script E.

 

[BogWalker]

Half mean on bolt handle, yeah that'd be a Turk. 91.r.12.127 would be 91st Infantry Regiment, 12th company, rifle number 127. 39.r.r.388 would be by my (limited) understanding the recruiting depot of the 39th infantry regiment, rifle number 388.

I'm gathering this from Firearm Technical Trivia, December 1999

The third might be 19th pioneer battalion, 3rd ersatzkompanie, rifle number 189.

I'm using the links I've provided to put this together so I may be making errors, but it's my best shot.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

It is chambered for 8mm Mauser using a .323 diameter bullet. It is wise to use lighter loads with these rifles as they have only two locking lugs rather than the three of the Mauser 98.

http://www.bayerischewaffen.de/daten/trstemp.pdf Here's some decent info on unit markings.

Are there any Turkish markings on it?

The Gewehr 88 would have seen second line service in Germany in WWI. If Turk refurbed doing the war it also would have seen service with them.

My Gew 88 likes Romanian surplus ammo. It uses a 150 grain bullet rather than the standard 196 that a lot of 8mm uses. It also seems to be a little milder load. I noticed a big difference in accuracy between the Romanian and Yugo ammo when I tried them both.

 

[IndyMedic]

Half mean on bolt handle, yeah that'd be a Turk. 91.r.12.127 would be 91st Infantry Regiment, 12th company, rifle number 127. 39.r.r.388 would be by my (limited) understanding the recruiting depot of the 39th infantry regiment, rifle number 388.

I'm gathering this from Firearm Technical Trivia, December 1999

The third might be 19th pioneer battalion, 3rd ersatzkompanie, rifle number 189.

I'm using the links I've provided to put this together so I may be making errors, but it's my best shot.

Great. I was also using this website as a reference in my research. So were these guns used by German troops and then given to the Turks or were they unused surplus that was given to them. Thanks again guys. Just trying to understand the history on this thing a little bit better.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

It is chambered for 8mm Mauser using a .323 diameter bullet. It is wise to use lighter loads with these rifles as they have only two locking lugs rather than the three of the Mauser 98.

Spot on. As for a source for lighter loads, the 8mm Mauser ammo loaded by Remington, Winchester, and Federal are spec'ed for a maximum chamber pressure of 37,000 CUP. European hunting ammo like Norma and DWM can run as high as 50,000 CUP. I don't have pressure test data from any of the various flavors of surplus.

 

[IndyMedic]

Spot on. As for a source for lighter loads, the 8mm Mauser ammo loaded by Remington, Winchester, and Federal are spec'ed for a maximum chamber pressure of 37,000 CUP. European hunting ammo like Norma and DWM can run as high as 50,000 CUP. I don't have pressure test data from any of the various flavors of surplus.

Great I will pick some of this up.

 

[BogWalker]

Great. I was also using this website as a reference in my research. So were these guns used by German troops and then given to the Turks or were they unused surplus that was given to them. Thanks again guys. Just trying to understand the history on this thing a little bit better.

Would have been used by German troops at some point post-1905, when the "S" marking was put over the chamber. If the E in your unit marking does mean ersatz that would mean this rifle was issued to German troops in 1914. The Gewehr 88 saw frontline use throughout the war.

I do not know if any Gewehr 88s continued to be sold to the Turks post-WWI or not.

 

[NKBJ]

Likely as not the rifling is rounded and the distance from the case mouth to rifling is substantial...
Perfect for oversized paper patched soft lead bullets!

 

[NKBJ]

By the way, use a magnifying glass to examine the cylindrical surface of the bolt around the base of the lugs.
Sometimes you can spot a fine networking of stress cracks.