need verification of some info I was given

[tgallmey]

I was at local shop and my buddy was getting Defensive ammo for his XD40 and I was curious what he recommended in 45 ACP for defensive use. Im not sure why but I did. He asks what am I using now and what kind of gun (Odd questions)(185gr +P in my XDM 45) he said basically that the 185 is inferior to a plain 230gr JHP!!!! Is there any merit to this or am I wrong thinking a +P load is superior. I need a scholar to explain!!!!!

 

[XtremeVel]

If a couple of variables were to be equal ( equal accuracy and reliability ), from all I have read, I would have to agree with your friend.

Not sure comparing a +P loading in a " light for caliber" round against what many consider the " standard weight " in a good, modern HP, is a good comparison...

Myself, I have a couple brands I am happy with in the 230gr weights in terms of function and accuracy... Neither one are currently +P. I have nothing against +P, but I chose the non +P versions because I usually have an easier time finding the exact same load in stock where I order from.

 

[Broom_jm]

In some cartridges, and for some applications, lighter, faster bullets are desirable. I can't say that self-defense rounds from a large caliber round like the 45ACP is one of those cartridges. I prefer big, heavy, slow bullets with mass versus velocity.

 

[Lupin3rd]

Here's a bit of physics to help you understand what is going on. Here is the equation for the kinetic energy of a moving object (i.e. a bullet):

E = 1/2*m*v^2

You can see that if you double the mass of the bullet (m), the energy (E) will double. If you double the speed of the bullet (or velocity (v)) you increase energy by a factor of 4 since the speed is squared in the equation.

Long story short, a lighter bullet with a heavier powder charge will hit harder than a heavier bullet with a lighter powder charge. Although, this is a bit of an over-simplification.

 

[SSGSAD]

I can agree with above... I also carry 230jhp, in my .45... I "have read" that hp, will NOT expand at speeds below 1000 fps... this info is old ... I do not know about NEWER bullets... new designs, new materials ... so the same o same o, again, is the LIGHT fast 115/124, at 1200 fps + "better" than a 230 gr @ 900 fps ... I carry 115/124 jhp, in my 9mm .....

 

[noylj]

If there is no expansion, I would want a 200gn L-SWC or other large, flat meplate bullet.
If there was expansion, I would want a 185gn +P JHP.
At no time would I want a RN-FMJ.
It is more important to actually hit the target, then it is to worry about the caliber or the bullet weight. A .22LR that hits is better than a .500S&W that misses.

 

[Broom_jm]

...and from a 45ACP, any bullet that hits is going to do so with authority.

Quoting the old K/E equation for stopping power is definitely over-simplifying, particularly with the bullets on the market today. In short, rounds like the 223 and 243 might kill with speed, but the 45ACP kills with mass and frontal area.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

OP, you'd have to know how fast your 185gr bullets were going...

And how fast a given 230gr load was going to determine.

But "Better" us subjective.

One of them WILL put more ft/lbs on target than the other. But that's definitely no the be all - end all of the game.

-J-

 

[tgallmey]

OP, you'd have to know how fast your 185gr bullets were going...

And how fast a given 230gr load was going to determine.

But "Better" us subjective.

One of them WILL put more ft/lbs on target than the other. But that's definitely no the be all - end all of the game.

-J-

1148 fps is how fast it runs I cant recall how fast a 230 grn load goes.

 

[cosermann]

Verification:

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Unless your 185 gr ammo is DPX, I'd ditch it. Since 185 gr 45 acp bullets have a lower sectional density than 230 gr 45 acp bullets, they typically do not penetrate as well at similar velocities.

Kinetic energy has little to do with incapacitation in the pistol velocity realm. It's all about penetration and destroying tissue/vital structures along the way. That is, the transfer of energy has to do useful work destroying things that will stop the target.

Edit: the 185 gr +p Golden Saber also seems to do fairly well for an older design prenetrating about 11.8 to 12.4" and expanding to about .68". Even so, the newer 230's that penetrate to this depth will expand to almost an inch of diameter.

 

[tgallmey]

Verification:

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Unless your 185 gr ammo is DPX, I'd ditch it. Since 185 gr 45 acp bullets have a lower sectional density than 230 gr 45 acp bullets, they typically do not penetrate as well at similar velocities.

Kinetic energy has little to do with incapacitation in the pistol velocity realm. It's all about penetration and destroying tissue/vital structures along the way. That is, the transfer of energy has to do useful work destroying things that will stop the target.

Edit: the 185 gr +p Golden Saber also seems to do fairly well for an older design prenetrating about 11.8 to 12.4" and expanding to about .68". Even so, the newer 230's that penetrate to this depth will expand to almost an inch of diameter.

Thank you. What is most reliable now a days. Hornady Critical Defense? I could use some new ammo anyways.

 

[GIJEW]

I carry the hydra-shok 165gr JHP "personal defense" round IN my pistol and put the 230gr. hydra-shoks in my spare mags on the assumption that by the time reloads get used, everyone will be behind cover--the 230gr bullets supposedly penetrate more.
Having said that...any combat vet or deer hunter can tell stories about the ones that ran off or shot back with fatal wounds from RIFLE BULLETS OR SHOTGUN SLUGS.
When using a pistol for defense, shot placement is everything.

 

[Tydeeh22]

i thought all the proof these days was in ballistics gel?

Here is FMJ

and HP

 

[tgallmey]

i thought all the proof these days was in ballistics gel?

Here is FMJ

and HP

Those pics dont justify whether 230 gr or 185 gr+P is superior to one another

 

[Tydeeh22]

Those pics dont justify whether 230 gr or 185 gr+P is superior to one another

i mis-read, let me find the ballistics on the .45's

 

[Tydeeh22]

185gr +p's

the 60 CM of penetration from the FMJ would be 23.6 inches of total penetration with a minimal wound cavity.

 

[Broom_jm]

This is where you have to quantify "minimal wound cavity" and ask yourself if the BG is really going to notice the difference. For all of this pontificating over HP/FMJ, 185/230, bare neked/arctic parka...the fact is boys, A 45 PUTS REALLY BIG HOLES IN STUFF!

Take a poll of all would-be assailants and ask them if they care all that much whether they are shot with a 185gr "fast" bullet or a 230gr "slow" bullet. From this particular cartridge, it just doesn't matter. Show me a human being that can take 10-20" of penetration from a 45 caliber slug without expiring forthwith and this argument might begin to have value. Until then, shoot whichever bullet you like, just be sure you can hit what you're aiming at with it. Sheesh!

 

[tgallmey]

This is where you have to quantify "minimal wound cavity" and ask yourself if the BG is really going to notice the difference. For all of this pontificating over HP/FMJ, 185/230, bare neked/arctic parka...the fact is boys, A 45 PUTS REALLY BIG HOLES IN STUFF!

Take a poll of all would-be assailants and ask them if they care all that much whether they are shot with a 185gr "fast" bullet or a 230gr "slow" bullet. From this particular cartridge, it just doesn't matter. Show me a human being that can take 10-20" of penetration from a 45 caliber slug without expiring forthwith and this argument might begin to have value. Until then, shoot whichever bullet you like, just be sure you can hit what you're aiming at with it. Sheesh!

Yea your right. It was a curiosity thing