New BATF ruling on stabilizing braces today

[d.kaufman]

ITS A TRAP! (?) Thats interesting. And the fatality isnt to the ruling making it go away, get defeated, etc. The fatal flaw hurts us.

TL;DR(W) You give them proof you already have a SBR according to the new ruling when you submit the details on your Form1 app.
After 88 days, an open (unfinished) background check automatically defaults to a deny.
When you and 4 million of your best friends all submit for the free form 1 to play by the rules, there is no way they can keep up with the load, making checks go beyond 88 days. Instant felons.

And an ATF rep at SHOT said that an enforcement action would be taken. They dont appear to have thought out this process fully.

So maybe its better skipping the free Form 1 and just converting to a rifle or paying the $200 for a SBR that doesnt exist yet?

 

[tackdriver]

At its core the NFA is a tax law, so the IRS would be the most logical agency to take over.

That's exactly where the ATF roots are buried. The original mission was to collect revenue on, wait for it.....

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms

It morphed into more of a law enforcement role to go after Gangsters who didn't pay taxes. Since it existed, it was very convenient to turn it into a Gun Control law enforcement agency, and here we are. My guess is that if the were disbanded, the FBI would broaden it's focus on gun control violations (or we'd get a new DHS agency), and the DEA would focus in on the alcohol and tobacco.

The one thing I'm confident about is - ATF or no ATF, the federal gov't won't forget about gun control laws, or sin taxes.

 

[bobzilla]

ATF Deputy Director tells GOA: "Pistol Brace" NICS auto-denial triggers ATF "enforcement"

But I thought everyone was ok with a free SBR filing. It couldn't POSSIBLY go wrong because they .gov is just looking out for us.

Add purple if it hurts your feelings.

I personally thought this would be how they went about it. Easy confiscation. With the amount of filings they will see and the length of time it will take,the default to a denial and "confiscation" along with imprisonment of thousands of people will "put the rest of these rebels on notice".

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

ITS A TRAP! (?) Thats interesting. And the fatality isnt to the ruling making it go away, get defeated, etc. The fatal flaw hurts us.

TL;DR(W) You give them proof you already have a SBR according to the new ruling when you submit the details on your Form1 app.
After 88 days, an open (unfinished) background check automatically defaults to a deny.
When you and 4 million of your best friends all submit for the free form 1 to play by the rules, there is no way they can keep up with the load, making checks go beyond 88 days. Instant felons.

And an ATF rep at SHOT said that an enforcement action would be taken. They dont appear to have thought out this process fully.

So maybe its better skipping the free Form 1 and just converting to a rifle or paying the $200 for a SBR that doesnt exist yet?



EDIT: derpending on how generous you are, this is either accidental or on purpose.

Just watched this. I’m not sure it was intentional but I’m sure at the very least it’s a happy coincidence.

 

[manifest destiny]

ATF
"enforcement action"
Great.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

ATF
"enforcement action"
Great.

“Discretional” *wink* *wink*

 

[nucular]

Just watched this. I’m not sure it was intentional but I’m sure at the very least it’s a happy coincidence.

Maybe but I didn't see a requirement on the form to actually send in a picture of the full rifle - only the receiver markings (and you provide a barrel length on the form). Theoretically you have one because you are filling out the free form but technically no proof.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Maybe but I didn't see a requirement on the form to actually send in a picture of the full rifle - only the receiver markings (and you provide a barrel length on the form). Theoretically you have one because you are filling out the free form but technically no proof.

Dont think you need a full photo if you are filing under the free stamp option in the first 120 days.

Besides, either you have a newly ruled SBR, or you are lying to them to make a rifle/other receiver not cost $200. So if you dont really have a "SBR" pistol, whats the penalty for lying on the application?

 

[BroodXI]

Dont think you need a full photo if you are filing under the free stamp option in the first 120 days.

Besides, either you have a newly ruled SBR, or you are lying to them to make a rifle/other receiver not cost $200. So if you dont really have a "SBR", whats the penalty for lying on the application?

Well if we look at Hunter Biden, no penalty for lying on the form.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Theoretically you have one because you are filling out the free form but technically no proof.

Im no attorney, but aren’t you giving them probable cause? (Especially, if with any technicality, you are denied?)

 

[nucular]

Im no attorney, but aren’t you giving them probable cause? (Especially, if with any technicality, you are denied?)

Yeah I suppose you might be. Are they going to kick down the doors of everyone that submits a free form 1? I hope so, then we can finally get all this ******** over with.

 

[Kurr]

Since your self reporting on something that has criminal penalties attached, wouldn't you be protected from self reporting by the 5th amendment?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Since your self reporting on something that has criminal penalties attached, wouldn't you be protected from self reporting by the 5th amendment?

Not if you voluntarily self incriminated, I‘d think.

 

[rosejm]

Are they going to kick down the doors of everyone that submits a free form 1?

Maybe not everyone but I'd guess all of the disapproved submissions.
Think of all the "attaboys" that will be handed down for felony NFA convictions captured by these agents/supervisors.

I'd even guess they'll have a contest (formal/informal) for who nabs the most.

 

[JAL]

Maybe not everyone but I'd guess all of the disapproved submissions.
Think of all the "attaboys" that will be handed down for felony NFA convictions captured by these agents/supervisors.

I'd even guess they'll have a contest (formal/informal) for who nabs the most.

Extra points for any dogs killed.

 

[Sigblitz]

Maybe but I didn't see a requirement on the form to actually send in a picture of the full rifle - only the receiver markings (and you provide a barrel length on the form). Theoretically you have one because you are filling out the free form but technically no proof.

I caught this right off. I think the video is click bait. Go back and check, but I think he said if it doesn't have the right kind of stock. So sending a picture with an a1 stock instead of a brace probably, to get a free stamp. Anyway, his views went up, that's what he cares about.

 

[nucular]

Maybe not everyone but I'd guess all of the disapproved submissions.
Think of all the "attaboys" that will be handed down for felony NFA convictions captured by these agents/supervisors.

I'd even guess they'll have a contest (formal/informal) for who nabs the most.

Actual disapprovals or this weird 88 day rumor thing spawning out of shot show? Actual disapprovals based on BG check, i could see them following up on. Something contrived would create some issues with the public.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Since your self reporting on something that has criminal penalties attached, wouldn't you be protected from self reporting by the 5th amendment?

And to put a finer point on it, what about the fact that the criminal penalties are there ONLY because they failed to act in a timely manner, whether via negligence or inability to perform through no fault of yours? You did everything you were supposed to do, so its not your fault. But the rule/law doesnt account for this nightmare scenario so on paper you are a criminal. (and they have already said "tough, rules are rules (even if its our fault) and you could be charged.)

Another angle; You go online a month out and pay your car registration. You get the stickers but you were not charged, (and didnt notice) so the database didnt get updated since the receipt of funds is what causes the database entry to show as valid*. A tow company using LPRs drives past you parallel parked and tows your car for expired tags. Now you have to go pay for a tow you shouldnt have had.

Is that your fault? In either case, you'll still have an arrest (or tow bill), court costs, lawyer costs, etc. all because you did nothing wrong. Seems ridiculous, even if in the end you "come out on top" and are deemed not guilty.

*yes, I know thats not really how it works. So if you know how it works dont correct me. Illustrative purposes only.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

TL;DR(W) You give them proof you already have a SBR according to the new ruling when you submit the details on your Form1 app.
After 88 days, an open (unfinished) background check automatically defaults to a deny.
When you and 4 million of your best friends all submit for the free form 1 to play by the rules, there is no way they can keep up with the load, making checks go beyond 88 days. Instant felons.

As much as I hate to be the one defending the ATF, I really don't see it happening that way. They won't be opening 4 million background checks on day one, they'll be processing however many they normally process at once, so the system will be under no more stress than is already is.

Since Form 1s already take 12+ months we know that the background check must only be open for a fraction of that time, otherwise everyone would fail, no one would get an SBR, and everyone would be subject to enforcement action since failing the background check means you can't have *any* firearms, let alone an NFA weapon.

 

[bobzilla]

Something contrived would create some issues with the public.

You think anyone in our current admin, fbi or atf really give a **** what the public thinks?