New Procedures at huntington bank

[clgustaveson]

-1,000,000 on the idea that banks have the right to trap you in the airlock for however long it takes them to determine your business. If there was a big PUSH TO EXIT lever on the inside of the outer door, then you aren't trapped and the bank is on firm ground doing whatever it wants with the inner door (including telling you to go away if you won't answer their questions). If there isn't a way to open the outer door, then the bank has committed Criminal Confinement (IC 35-42-3-3), a Class D Felony.

Nobody should do business with this bank, but the remedy for persistently committing Criminal Confinement should not be loss of business, but the arrest of the perpetrator(s): the persons at the bank who control that door.

Pardon me, I haven't read the entire thread yet buuut... if you enter with a gun, and there is a sign on the door they have every right to prevent you from entering.

IMHO A private company has every right to do whatever it is they want, sneaking a gun into a bank that does not (and has posted they do not want) a weapon in the building is a violation of that private businesses security measures. Banks tend to be security intensive... the ones that lock me out I don't use...

FREEDOM works both ways...

just my

GoD bless

 

[Roadie]

I finally received a belated, terse and unapologetic response from Huntington. Feel free to read it here:
2010 11 29 Huntington response.pdf

The letter is dated Nov 5th but postmarked Nov 23rd.

The response merely confirmed my decision. I doubt I'll even bother to reply. I've got my new business accounts set up at IMCU and am working on paying off and transferring everything else.

What a bunch of doublespeak. Whoever wrote that letter has a future in politics.

 

[Roadie]

Pardon me, I haven't read the entire thread yet buuut... if you enter with a gun, and there is a sign on the door they have every right to prevent you from entering.

IMHO A private company has every right to do whatever it is they want, sneaking a gun into a bank that does not (and has posted they do not want) a weapon in the building is a violation of that private businesses security measures. Banks tend to be security intensive... the ones that lock me out I don't use...

FREEDOM works both ways...

just my

GoD bless

I think you are missing the point...

 

[ATM]

...they have every right to prevent you from entering.

...the ones that lock me out I don't use...

Locking me out is fine, but the discussion was about locking someone IN.

 

[clgustaveson]

I think you are missing the point...

Correct me if I am wrong...

Guy is customer at bank.

Bank changes policy.

Guy does not like new policy.

Guy changes banks.


Bottom line, there should be no law or rule that forces a company to do something... they should be allowed to do as they will, if their practices are not enjoyable to you, then take your business elsewhere.

This is not a 2nd amendment violation, this is a matter of a private company modifying its policy.

If you carry a gun and want to do business with a bank that lets you do so, take your business there. If this causes the bank to lose enough business they will change their policy or die.... lesson learned.

If you disagree, that is fine but freedom is not just something we use when we like it... its a two way street and the bank has every right to do what it is doing....

The door locking you in is a security measure, you have violated their policy and you are possible threat, a secure facility has every right to detain you in this situation, should they? Thats not what I am saying here... there is sharp difference in a secure facility and a non-secure facility as far as weapons are concerned.

Violating a posted policy in a secured facility is cause to be detained, was a law broken by either side? No

If the sign werent posted, and the building were not a secure private facility I would say it is over kill and illegal... but it's not there is proper notice and a law abiding citizen has no reason to worry....

The right thing was done, a drive through would fix it. Then, go home gather your thoughts, and find a new place to bank.

 

[clgustaveson]

Locking me out is fine, but the discussion was about locking someone IN.

A private security force has the right to detain someone in a secure facility in order to maintain peace... I think.

I am not saying they should or shouldn't... but you can protect your property and the rules in place.... I think.

 

[ATM]

Thinking is good. Reading is even better (in cases of law). Go look up the legal definition of secure facility.
Let us know if banks really are included.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I never understood why bank tellers arent armed. People who work at gun shops and pawn shops are usually armed, if banks are such a big target why not require bank tellers to be armed?

Liability. Liability for customers who might get caught in the crossfire; liability for proper training of bank employees; liability for lawsuits by frightened customers; liability for civil lawsuits by wounded robbers....

It's much cheaper to advise employees to give up the money (it's insured, after all) and let the bank robber(s) go.

 

[clgustaveson]

Thinking is good. Reading is even better (in cases of law). Go look up the legal definition of secure facility.
Let us know if banks really are included.

It actually depends what you are talking about, reading is what I did.

There are many legal definitions of a secure facility and the type of business is almost always not a factor.

The SFA of 2010 is irrelevant if that is why you are stating it in that manner.

Or if we are talking about licensing a private secure facility, that is also irrelevant.

A private business is allowed to secure its facilities, and to hire a private person to provide protection. This guard may detain an individual to secure the property... Please see I.C. 35-33-1-4

 

[ATM]

I don't think the citizens arrest code authorizes anyone to engage in criminal confinement.

That's to arrest people who are, you know, breaking a law.

 

[singlestacksig]

even if you do not have a LTCH, it is not a felony to carry a gun.. a privat company can not detain you for a lawful act..

 

[clgustaveson]

I don't think the citizens arrest code authorizes anyone to engage in criminal confinement.

That's to arrest people who are, you know, breaking a law.

Correct, trespassing would be the appropriat violation...

IC 35-33-1-4
Any person
Sec. 4. (a) Any person may arrest any other person if:
(1) the other person committed a felony in his presence;
(2) a felony has been committed and he has probable cause to believe that the other person has committed that felony; or
(3) a misdemeanor involving a breach of peace is being committed in his presence and the arrest is necessary to prevent the continuance of the breach of peace.
(b) A person making an arrest under this section shall, as soon as practical, notify a law enforcement officer and deliver custody of the person arrested to a law enforcement officer.
(c) The law enforcement officer may process the arrested person as if the officer had arrested him. The officer who receives or processes a person arrested by another under this section is not liable for false arrest or false imprisonment.
As added by Acts 1981, P.L.298, SEC.2. Amended by Acts 1982, P.L.204, SEC.7.

Please correct me here, but it Huntington's bank has every right to allow their security to detain you in this situation and, in my opinion they are doing everything by the book..

Just use another bank...

 

[clgustaveson]

I am not saying I disagree with you, but the fact is they can do what they do... there is plenty of legal precident as well.

My suggestion is to always obey posted rules, otherwise you are foregoing the privelage to use the property you are on and therefore trespassing.

Just obey the law, unless your goal is to challenge precident, then by all means do what you shall and you better have a damn good lawyer.

 

[kevman65]

Its not a 2nd Amendment fight, period. Any place of business has the right to produce rules and enforce rules if you want to do business with them. Any place of business has the right to employ people to secure said place of business and enforce said rules. If it is posted that firearms are not allowed on property and you proceed on property, said security people can detain you to discover your intentions. Once that has been done said security person can either release you after informing you verbally you can't enter with a firearm, or they can detain you, call the police, and swear a trespass warrant against you.

If you don't want to do business with a place of business that is not CC or OC friendly that is your right to do so. You are on their property and have to abide by their rules. They are neither a federal, state, nor local government entity and can make and enforce these rules. Your 2nd amendment right is something a government can not take away, a private business can on their property.

 

[ATM]

Correct, trespassing would be the appropriat violation...

Not until you're asked to leave and certainly not if you're confined and unable to do so.

No guns allowed signage does not carry the same legal weight in Indiana as in some other states.

It would be like trapping and confining someone for not wearing shoes or a shirt if you had a sign requiring them. Just a rule - not law.

 

[Hammerhead]

For a long time now, I've come to realize that there are a lot of people who don't understand one simple truth when it comes to businesses and the law. It's actually a fairly simple concept that seems to elude people.


Company policy is not law.

The bank can make a policy that they do not allow firearms. They can put signs up, they can put security measures in place, they can send out ignorant letters to inquisitive customers, and they can generally go fornicate themselves over how they're deterring crime.

They can not stop you from carrying a gun unless and until they actually speak to you telling you to leave the property. Then and only then, it's a trespass issue. (Speaking specifically of Indiana). Locking you in their little vestibule because their metal detectors pinged is at the very least criminal confinement, kidnapping, false imprisonment, false arrest. No matter how much fuzzy feel good crime deterrent ego stroking they give themselves, their policies do not make their actions legal.

There was even another thread here recently where this happened, and the police officer bawled out the bank manager for locking a legal gun carrier in and calling the 5-0. It's stupid, hoplophopic, tapinophobic crap like this that perpetuates the FUD of legal carry.

Personally, I don't bank with this institution, and I don't have a reason to. But I'm very tempted to call this lady in the letter and inform them of my personal opinion like she so willingly offered.

-1 to Huntington.

 

[kevman65]

For a long time now, I've come to realize that there are a lot of people who don't understand one simple truth when it comes to businesses and the law. It's actually a fairly simple concept that seems to elude people.


Company policy is not law.

The bank can make a policy that they do not allow firearms. They can put signs up, they can put security measures in place, they can send out ignorant letters to inquisitive customers, and they can generally go fornicate themselves over how they're deterring crime.

They can not stop you from carrying a gun unless and until they actually speak to you telling you to leave the property. Then and only then, it's a trespass issue. (Speaking specifically of Indiana). Locking you in their little vestibule because their metal detectors pinged is at the very least criminal confinement, kidnapping, false imprisonment, false arrest. No matter how much fuzzy feel good crime deterrent ego stroking they give themselves, their policies do not make their actions legal.

There was even another thread here recently where this happened, and the police officer bawled out the bank manager for locking a legal gun carrier in and calling the 5-0. It's stupid, hoplophopic, tapinophobic crap like this that perpetuates the FUD of legal carry.

Personally, I don't bank with this institution, and I don't have a reason to. But I'm very tempted to call this lady in the letter and inform them of my personal opinion like she so willingly offered.

-1 to Huntington.

Hammerhead, I was the person locked in an Indiana National Bank door trap and posted it up. One of the things the LEO chewed the manager about was that they had nothing posted saying it was against that banks rules to legally carry on their property. If it had been posted then I could have been cited for trespass.
When you step on private property you are agreeing to abide by the rules of the owner. Its just like buying a ticket to a sporting event, you agree to abide by their rules or you agree to leave or you agree to be arrested.

You can say signage doesn't mean anything, right up until they cuff and stuff you if you don't abide by the rules that an owner of private property has. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights apply to everyone on public property the same and no government can change that. They stop at private property. You don't have the right to carry on someones private property. You don't have the right to peaceful assembly on someones private property. You don't have the right to religion on someones private property. You don't have the right to freedom of speech on someones private property. They can grant you permission or deny permission for any or all.

If any of that was false, then it wouldn't be possible to cite for trespass.

 

[Scutter01]

even if you do not have a LTCH, it is not a felony to carry a gun.. a privat company can not detain you for a lawful act..

It can be a felony to carry without a license (and by "without a license", I mean "you've never been issued one", not "left it at home"). Depending on the circumstances, it's either a B-Misdemeanor or a C-Felony. Having a license is an affirmative defense against the charge of carrying a firearm without a license.

IC 35-47-2-23

 

[Amishman44]

MidWest American in Fort Wayne has a chamber like that...except that I've carried my G-32 in and out of there for the past 3 years with no problems...either they don't have it turned on or because I pay all my bills on time and all of my loans off, except for the most recent loan, which will be paid off in December, or because the girls up front know me and just let me pass through???

 

[kevman65]

MidWest American in Fort Wayne has a chamber like that...except that I've carried my G-32 in and out of there for the past 3 years with no problems...either they don't have it turned on or because I pay all my bills on time and all of my loans off, except for the most recent loan, which will be paid off in December, or because the girls up front know me and just let me pass through???

They were designed for robberies. If they get held up, when the robber exits he's supposed to get locked between.