New rules for MCF&G bowling pins

[FreeLand]

I would like feedback about some new rules we are considering adopting for MCF&G’s bowling pin match. Currently there are just three divisions for shooting full-size pins: Major, Minor & Bug. I am suggesting that we make a change to the BUG (back-up gun) division and add two additional divisions.

First I hope to encourage shooters who regularly participate with their competition guns to compete with the guns they normally carry. Second, I want to give new shooters who show up with guns that are at a competitive disadvantage under the current rules (.i.e. a Glock 27) an opportunity compete on a more level playing field.

We currently have the following three divisions for shooting full-size pins:

Full-size handgun (Major caliber - .40 S&W and up)
Five pins on the table placed 1' from front edge of table.
Gun and additional magazines loaded to 8 rounds.

Full-size handgun (Minor caliber - .357 and smaller)
Five pins on the table placed 2' from front edge of table.
Gun and additional magazines loaded to 8 rounds.

"BUG" gun (.38 SPL & .380 ACP):
barrel length no greater than 2.5" for .38 SPL revolvers / 3" for .380 ACP pistols.
Three pins placed 2' from front edge of the table.
Gun and additional magazines loaded to 5 rounds.

Proposed new divisions for shooting full-size pins:

Compact handgun (Any caliber): barrel length no greater than 4.02".
Five pins on the table placed 2' from front edge of table.
Gun and additional magazines loaded to 10 rounds.
Examples: Glock 19, 23 & 30, Ruger SR9c,

Sub-compact handgun (Any caliber): barrel length no greater than 3.46".
Four pins placed 2' from front edge of table.
Gun and additional magazines loaded to 6 rounds.
Examples: Glock 26 & 27, M&P Shield, Beretta Nano,

"BUG" gun (.38 SPL & .380 ACP):
barrel length no greater than 2.5" for .38 SPL revolvers / 3" for .380 ACP pistols.
Three pins placed 3' from front edge of the table.
Gun and additional magazines loaded to 6 rounds.

or

"BUG" gun (.38 SPL & .380 ACP):
barrel length no greater than 2.5" for .38 SPL revolvers / 3" for .380 ACP pistols.
Five pins placed on the back edge of the table.
Gun and additional magazines loaded to 6 rounds.

Would appreciate your thoughts regarding barrel lengths, number of rounds, placement and number of pins. All input is welcome, but please identify yourself as someone who regularly shoots with us or not.

Hope to test drive these new divisions at our June match.

 

[CB45]

Too be honest, I think that just complicates the whole process.

Compact division doesn't make sense. 3/4" of sight radius won't make that big of difference at 10 yards. Not enough to justify -1 pin.

Add 3" barrel 9mm into the BUG division and continue to shoot 3pins

My opinion probably doesn't mean much, but there it is.

 

[mssmith44]

I haven't been to one your Matches, but 357 magnum revolvers can be major power factor pretty easily. I think it could be an option for those to go major.

 

[FreeLand]

Too be honest, I think that just complicates the whole process.

My opinion probably doesn't mean much, but there it is.

I am concerned about it getting too complicated.

I do appreciate your opinion. My life is too hectic at the moment to really give this serious thought, so I've thrown something out there and asked for help sorting out what makes the most sense.

 

[FreeLand]

I haven't been to one your Matches, but 357 magnum revolvers can be major power factor pretty easily. I think it could be an option for those to go major.

So far I haven't seen anyone show up with .357 Mag loads that were hot enough to push the pins off the back of the table the way .45 ACP or .44 SPL does. A previous match director set up the rules to make .357 Mag minor and I haven't seen anything to make me feel that was the wrong call.

If anything is miscategorized, in my opinion, it would be .40 S&W. Even JHP shot from a G35 doesn't have the ability to push pins consistently off the back of the table.

 

[Tom E]

These would give guys with revolvers a chance:

Sub-compact handgun (Any caliber): barrel length no greater than 3.46".
Four pins placed 2' from front edge of table.
Gun and additional magazines loaded to 6 rounds.
Examples: Glock 26 & 27, M&P Shield, Beretta Nano,

"BUG" gun (.38 SPL & .380 ACP):
barrel length no greater than 2.5" for .38 SPL revolvers / 3" for .380 ACP pistols.
Three pins placed 3' from front edge of the table.
Gun and additional magazines loaded to 6 rounds.

I'm shooting the ACC NSSF Rimfire Match Sunday so Friday Nite Steel and Saturday Pins at MCF&G sounded like fun. See ya there.

 

[mssmith44]

I had a 357 mag pin load that used a 200 grain bullet that liked to tumble. There is nothing like that load when it hit a pin sideways. It was right at 1000 fps.
but most 357 loads are not that dynamic.

 

[praff]

My opinion to keep it simple having been a patron of pins would be keep 3 div.

major
full size minor
compact (less than 3in maybe 3.5 makes sense dunno) minor

Anything in major caliber regardless of barrel length should be major.

 

[Don Parks]

I think you have a good thing going. I would like to see 3inch for all bug guns. Maybe a bracket for bugs only.

 

[FreeLand]

So..... maybe creating two new divisions isn't as exciting to people as I thought it might be.

However, there does seem to be some interest in broadening what would fit in the BUG division. How do people feel about allowing guns with barrels up to 3.5" long compete with the snub-nose revolvers and pocket .380's? That would allow guns like a G26 and the S&W Shield to be considered a BUG.

Leave the number of rounds at 5? or increase it to 6?

 

[jakemartens]

So far I haven't seen anyone show up with .357 Mag loads that were hot enough to push the pins off the back of the table the way .45 ACP or .44 SPL does. A previous match director set up the rules to make .357 Mag minor and I haven't seen anything to make me feel that was the wrong call.

If anything is miscategorized, in my opinion, it would be .40 S&W. Even JHP shot from a G35 doesn't have the ability to push pins consistently off the back of the table.

isn't magnum caliber not allowed at MCF&G

 

[Tom E]

How do people feel about allowing guns with barrels up to 3.5" long compete with the snub-nose revolvers and pocket .380's? That would allow guns like a G26 and the S&W Shield to be considered a BUG.

Compact would be a better name at that barrel length. Unless you want it to be a class ruled by 3 1/2" semi-autos you might want to allow 3 1/2" revolvers. There pretty much are no 3 1/2" revolvers but it would allow the existing 3" to 3.2" revolvers. 6 rds, .380, 9mm, .38 special only? Would be a good class with alot of guns capable of winning.

Can I shoot a 627 S&W revolver with a C-more and loads in 38 special cases as Major, 5 pins 3 feet from the back edge instead of minor with 6 pins @ 2 feet? Looking forward to shooting with you saturday. Hope the weather's good.

 

[chezuki]

isn't magnum caliber not allowed at MCF&G

MCFG Indy Range - Approved Cartridges for use on the Ranges

 

[chizzle]

I'd allow as many rounds as practical in a mag. More rounds = fewer mag changes = faster matches. You can't make all guns equally competitive, but you can update the rules to allow more guns to compete.

Keep up the good work! We've got to continue to try new things if we're going to improve. Thanks for your time and effort!

 

[SSGSAD]

So..... maybe creating two new divisions isn't as exciting to people as I thought it might be.

However, there does seem to be some interest in broadening what would fit in the BUG division. How do people feel about allowing guns with barrels up to 3.5" long compete with the snub-nose revolvers and pocket .380's? That would allow guns like a G26 and the S&W Shield to be considered a BUG.

Leave the number of rounds at 5? or increase it to 6?

I don't shoot pins, with a .38, but if I did, I own, a .38 5 shot, with a 3" bbl. So with the "new" division, I would be 1 shot "short", so to say .....

 

[FreeLand]

isn't magnum caliber not allowed at MCF&G

.44 Magnum is allowed. The only person that regularly shot with a .44 magnum revolver did his own reloading and said his bowling pin loads were "light" and comparable to .44 SPL. It was very hard to argue with his results.

 

[FreeLand]

Can I shoot a 627 S&W revolver with a C-more and loads in 38 special cases as Major, 5 pins 3 feet from the back edge instead of minor with 6 pins @ 2 feet?

Rules say that a .38 SPL with an optic would be 6 pins at 2' from the front edge of the table. If you want to use that gun, shoot the first bracket that way and we'll see how it goes. If it seems like we need to make an adjustment, I'll conside it for subsequent brackets.

My exerpience shooting .38 SPL from a 4" barrel is that I need +P loads to consistently push the pins off the back of the table at even the minor position. If you were to shoot .38 SPL with pins at the major position, I think you'd have to shoot every pin twice to get them off the table.

 

[browndog2]

John, we used to get many suggestions (most of them self serving) of how to "improve" the bowling pin program. We would consider each suggestion and adopt any of merit. This is how the minor category and pin heads came to be. Back then, any unnecessary complications were not welcome. The program will become as complicated as you allow it to be. You do an excellent job of running the bowling pin program, whatever you decide to do will be great. Remember, you can try something new and if it does not work, stop. Thank you for your good work. I hope to attend this month.

 

[Tom E]

My exerpience shooting .38 SPL from a 4" barrel is that I need +P loads to consistently push the pins off the back of the table at even the minor position. If you were to shoot .38 SPL with pins at the major position, I think you'd have to shoot every pin twice to get them off the table.

6" barrel and they're definitely +P. Only one way to find out if they'll take the pins off from 3 feet up. No whining from me if they don't... it's not like we're shooting for all the money in the world. C-mores are what give us older guys with cataracts a chance...

 

[FreeLand]

6" barrel and they're definitely +P. Only one way to find out if they'll take the pins off from 3 feet up. No whining from me if they don't... it's not like we're shooting for all the money in the world. C-mores are what give us older guys with cataracts a chance...

Tell you what, we give first time shooters at our bowling pin matches a practice table at the beginning of the match before we start keeping score. Shoot 5-pins at the major position and we'll make a decision. I still think you'll be able to shoot 6-pins 1X faster than you can shoot 5-pins 2X.