New Shadow 2, 10+ FTE in 400 Rounds. Is It Me?

[Nepherael]

Couple other ideas I was just curious of your opinions on

Increased power extractor spring?

My gun was obviously shot before. A bit of black was everywhere as if I had shot a couple mags and not cleaned it. I'm assuming they put some rounds through it at the factory because I bought it new. Let's throw a hypothetical out there. If my shadow was shot at the factory a couple rounds when it was manufactured, let's say it was manufactured over 6 months ago. Hell let's say it's been a year. Could the carbon left behind for so long (even from a few rounds) have gummed the extractor up and then hardened from being left so long?

 

[Areoflyer09]

The magazine idea is easy enough to test. Load it up and then tap the back of it on a table to shift the rounds to be all the way back.

 

[gmcttr]

The magazine idea is easy enough to test. Load it up and then tap the back of it on a table to shift the rounds to be all the way back.

I thump the back of every mag I load for any firearm. Been my habit for as long as I can remember.

Couple other ideas I was just curious of your opinions on

Increased power extractor spring?

My gun was obviously shot before. A bit of black was everywhere as if I had shot a couple mags and not cleaned it. I'm assuming they put some rounds through it at the factory because I bought it new. Let's throw a hypothetical out there. If my shadow was shot at the factory a couple rounds when it was manufactured, let's say it was manufactured over 6 months ago. Hell let's say it's been a year. Could the carbon left behind for so long (even from a few rounds) have gummed the extractor up and then hardened from being left so long?

Shouldn't need an extra power spring any more than any other S2 and if that worked it would just be a band-aid on whatever the real problem is.

Since all CZ'z are test fired and sit for some period of time before being sold, I doubt "gumming up the extractor" from test firing is possible. A drop of oil and working the extractor would cure this. Mine has over 3k rounds through it with only an occasional drop of oil added and no cleaning of the extractor other than at the bolt face.

Stick with your plan of calling CZ.

 

[Nepherael]

Thanks for all the advice. Small update: called CZ. They were pretty nice. Best they could quote for warranty shop time is 4-6 weeks but he said their gunsmith has been doing about 3-4 weeks lately.

When I explained this was a competition piece and we are currently in season he said if I mentioned that in the warranty form they might be willing to start off by sending me some parts. So I did mention just that and started by asking for an extractor assembly and maybe a recoil spring. Although I followed up by deferring to their expertise because they know their guns better than I do.

No response yet.

In other news, I detail stripped the slide, including knocking out the extractor pin and inspecting the assembly. Of course I got a lot of black off the extractor but that seems normal after a few hundred rounds. At least when I've cleaned my 1911's.

However, the remarkable part is the extractor spring. After reinstalling the extractor and spring it looked different. I was able to see the spring behind the extractor looking correctly installed and the extractor moves correctly obviously but I feel like when I was inspecting before this detail strip that it didn't look the same. I feel like I couldn't see the spring before and I also feel like the extractor didn't move as easily. Maybe the spring was pushed hard in another direction and didn't quite sit where it was supposed to. On inspection the spring looks fine though so I'm not sure.

Chalk it up to me not paying enough attention beforehand or the spring just being black with carbon or maybe it's just wishful thinking but I think reinstalling it may have had a positive effect.

I'll be taking it out to shoot it again here soon and I'm interested to see what happens.

Another thing I'm super pissed about: I tend to baby my guns. I can barely afford the hobby. Knocking the extractor pin back in caused me to mar the inside of the slide a bit. I'm sure it won't affect function but now that mark will always be there. I obviously have the wrong punches for this kind of work. I thought they were fine but I guess I need a brass set.

 

[Grelber]

Another thing I'm super pissed about: I tend to baby my guns. I can barely afford the hobby. Knocking the extractor pin back in caused me to mar the inside of the slide a bit. I'm sure it won't affect function but now that mark will always be there. I obviously have the wrong punches for this kind of work. I thought they were fine but I guess I need a brass set.

Competition changes things.
If I have a gun that is not accumulating battle scars I figure I ought to sell it.

 

[weevilbasher]

Hope it works out for you. i've been trying to get my hands on one of these for a while

 

[Grelber]

I obviously have the wrong punches for this kind of work. I thought they were fine but I guess I need a brass set.

Oh, roll pin starter punches + regular flat tipped punches are ideal for me.

Never had a small diameter soft metal punch, I don't think it would stay straight long for me.

 

[gglass]

Extractor doesn't need tuned..
The extractor pivots on the pin that holds it in place and uses a small coil spring. Similar to the setup on an ar bolt!

Could be possible that the extractor tip is rounded or broke. Which could cause it to loose grip on the case. Or the spring is broken or weak.

You could chamber check your factory round to see if it plucks. If it doesn't then chances are that the chamber was reamed too tight. And would need to go back to CZ

^^^ What he said ^^^

 

[Nepherael]

So I was stripping pins out of it today to fully detail strip the frame. Up to now I've only detail stripped the slide.

So I looked at the screw holding in my mag release spring and trigger spring. It didn't look at the correct angle compared to what I've seen in videos. I start to turn it out and pieces of the frame around the screw start chipping. All the serrations on the screw are getting scraped off. I made it about a quarter turn and then turned it back in.

I emailed and then called CZ. They proceeded to tell me that that screw is staked in place. That it is normal for the serrations to scrape off and that in order to change the direction of the mag catch or change the springs that the screw holds it must be sent to CZ to be changed and re-staked.

Is this real and correct information? Here's some photos of what it looks like. You can see the serrations on the screw scraped and to the left and right there are 2 chunks of my frame that chipped out when turning the screw. Again, he says this is all normal

This is probably my fault for following youtube vids.

After searching further I did find someone who mentioned the staking and basically said, if you don't want to re-stake just use loctite. I'm doing everything I can to keep this in my possession. Let me know if this really is correct how you handle it when you change these

 

[gmcttr]

I have never removed that screw in my S2 but it is staked the same as yours but I didn't realize that until reading your post.

The same screw in my CZ P-01 is not staked and came loose twice before I loctited it. When it backs out a couple of turns the trigger bar spring will not lift the trigger bar enough to reset the trigger and it will not go bang.

 

[Nepherael]

I have never removed that screw in my S2 but it is staked the same as yours but I didn't realize that until reading your post.

The same screw in my CZ P-01 is not staked and came loose twice before I loctited it. When it backs out a couple of turns the trigger bar spring will not lift the trigger bar enough to reset the trigger and it will not go bang.

Thanks. I'm a lot more calm now. I watched at least 3 videos and multiple posts on detail stripping specifically a shadow 2 and none of them mentioned the staking so it really freaked me out. I haven't been in the game that long so I'm learning all the time. This is first I've seen of a spring designed to be permanently in place. And a mag catch as well. Just wish any of those "how-to" videos would've mentioned it and I would've left it alone.

Now that I've found a few posts where people say they've busted out the staking to switch the mag catch they all said it did ok without restaking it so I'm a lot more chill about it now

 

[Grelber]

After searching further I did find someone who mentioned the staking and basically said, if you don't want to re-stake just use loctite. I'm doing everything I can to keep this in my possession. Let me know if this really is correct how you handle it when you change these

CGW will tell you they have had issues removing those screws once loctite was used. I always just restaked, never had an issue.

 

[Nepherael]

CGW will tell you they have had issues removing those screws once loctite was used. I always just restaked, never had an issue.

When you say restaked do you just mean screw it back in it or is there a tool for this? Haven't been able to find much on that

 

[Grelber]

When you say restaked do you just mean screw it back in it or is there a tool for this? Haven't been able to find much on that

I just used a sharp punch, I think there is a staking tool that CZ Custom sells but I did not feel the need.

 

[Nepherael]

I just used a sharp punch, I think there is a staking tool that CZ Custom sells but I did not feel the need.

I'm probably coming at this a little dense but just so I understand. Once the screw is screwed in completely you take the punch and give it a hard hit to set it (or stake it)?

 

[gmcttr]

You do not hit the screw. You punch the frame material adjacent to the screw to displace it against the screw to prevent it from turning.

 

[Grelber]

I'm probably coming at this a little dense but just so I understand. Once the screw is screwed in completely you take the punch and give it a hard hit to set it (or stake it)?

It is probably worth doing a web search for something like "staking screws" and "CZ factory staking tool" to get a feel for things. You are trying to deform both the screw and the frame to create interference that will prevent the screw from turning.

If you can wake up The Wizard on the regular CZ thread it would be great to know what he advises, I have done a very few guns, I expect he has done a good bit more than a very few.

 

[Grelber]

You do not hit the screw. You punch the frame material adjacent to the screw to displace it against the screw to prevent it from turning.

Didn't see this post when I was typing. Ar15 pic is interesting, seems like screws would tend to back off a smidge, which is probably wok for that application.

 

[Nepherael]

Thanks for all of you being willing to educate me on this

So instead of fully unscrewing it and re-staking it I just left it as-is. It's pretty tight and I didn't turn it very far so I think I'm good.

I don't get home much so it took me until today to get back to it and get it all together. Besides the little hiccup with the staking, everything else went great.

On Thurs night I shot about 100 rounds through it at a club shoot 5 rounds at a time (shoot 5, reload, shoot 5) with no ejection issues. The shop owner at the shoot said he's had 3 guys with "intermittent FTE" just like I had and he was pretty sure all of them were not gripping correctly after he tested each of them out.

If, after my next trip out for live fire training does well then I'll chalk all the FTE's up to either me not knowing how to shoot my new gun well or a wonky ejector install, or both.

Hoping that's the case. I was always willing to believe that it was me (even though I've never had a problem with my 1911's, shooting this CZ felt way different) so if it keeps the gun in my hands I'll take the blame for the malfunctions

 

[gmcttr]

...The shop owner at the shoot said he's had 3 guys with "intermittent FTE" just like I had and he was pretty sure all of them were not gripping correctly after he tested each of them out.
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If, after my next trip out for live fire training does well then I'll chalk all the FTE's up to either me not knowing how to shoot my new gun well or a wonky ejector install, or both...

If all goes well in the future, I would suspect the possible "wonky ejector install". With as much as the S2 weighs, "not gripping correctly" seems like a long shot to me. A female friend of a friend put a couple of mags through mine a while back without issue and her grip was low with the support hand cupped under the grip and both elbows bent too much. However, if I remember I will have to try limp wristing mine just to see.