New Years party at my favorite liberal's..

[AndersonIN]

Oh, I have to engage her. It's one of my favorite pastimes. And its never just the two of us, there's usually 5-8 people listening in. They will sometimes get a comment in, but usually just listen. I generally smash her arguments with reason. I will never change her mind, but it's the people listening in that I'm going for.

Here's something fun that I like to do for debates of any type....religious, gun, etc.

Ask them to agree to NEVER START A SENTENCE WITH.........I THINK, I FEEL, OR I BELIEVE.

Tends to make them have to use facts and that really bugs the CRAP out of them! Cause they don't have any!

If they don't just say I think, feel or believe differently.

 

[Black Cloud]

Tell her, for those that don't wish to use high capacity magazines, they make and sell low capacity magazines. It's a choice that can be made, and that's what is nice about it.

As far as hi-caps being a root of massacre evil, a bad guy can change 10-rd mags just as fast as a 30-rd mag. In fact, one of the recent and most deadly massacres, that's all the bad guy had. Low cap mags. It didn't stop the lunatic from committing a sin, until the good guys with guns showed up. And those good guys didn't have low capacity magazines. Gee, I wonder why...

 

[grogie]

She's small minded if that's all she can fixate on (of course we already know that).

Yeah, funny she's having a party where I'm sure alcohol will be served without a second thought. Is she going to drive everyone home? I bet not.

 

[Punkinhead]

The arguement I usually use for high cap mags:

Depending on the source usually properly trained police make about a 20% hit ratio for every bullet they fire. Assuming that you could equally as well as a properly trained cop it would take you 5 rounds to make one hit.

I'd be careful bringing up this argument with someone that is already anti-gun. Playing devil's advocate, here's what I imagine her reaction would be. "Back in August at the Empire State Building 2 highly trained NYPD officers trying to take down a lone gunman fired 16 rounds and wounded nine bystanders. You've got less training than them so presumably you're shooting would be even worse. Are you seriously telling me you need high capacity magazines so that you can put even more rounds into innocent bystanders?"

I don't think I'd go there.

 

[Hookeye]

Tell her your not a cop so your hit rate would be better

 

[sloughfoot]

I reject the "High capacity" argument.

Glocks were designed to hold 17 rounds. S&W/Beretta and many others were designed to hold 15. AR/Mini14/M1A were designed to hold 20 or 30 rounders.

These are all Standard Capacity. They are not high capacity.

Many of these firearms were designed and put into service long before many people currently on the planet were born.

The 9mm Hi-power comes to mind....

High capacity is a term invented by those trying to make political hay over firearms.

 

[minuteman32]

Why does she need makeup, perfume & hairspray?!
Why does she have a car (assuming here) that will go faster than 70MPH when that's the highest speed limit in the state?
If she has a big house, why? Uses more natural resources to heat/cool it & if she has to have it, why not invite some homeless folks to share it?
Etc.
At the end of a gunfight no one ever said, "Man, I wish I didn't have all this ammo with me!"

 

[Cpt Caveman]

I reject the "High capacity" argument.

Glocks were designed to hold 17 rounds. S&W/Beretta and many others were designed to hold 15. AR/Mini14/M1A were designed to hold 20 or 30 rounders.

These are all Standard Capacity. They are not high capacity.


High capacity is a term invented by those trying to make political hay over firearms.

What he said.

 

[Double T]

ask why the arbitrary speed limits? People die even going 30mph, so why not lower them.

because time is money.

 

[Roadie]

Licensed gun owners commit less than 1% of all gun crime. How will limiting the capacity of the magazines they carry help anyone? Criminals, by definition, do not obey laws, and will not obey a magazine capacity limit..

If she brings up "assault rifles", point out that about 4-5% of all gun murders are with rifles of ANY kind, so how would banning a certain type type of rifle make a dent in overall gun murders? (especially considering that "Criminals, by definition, do not obey laws")

 

[88GT]

I wouldn't bother to engage. You won't change their mind anyway. You might try something along the lines of "Pray God, woman - why do YOU need to speak more than 30 words to me tonight?"

Winner! Take the fallacy right back to her.

 

[miguel]

I wouldn't bother to engage. You won't change their mind anyway. You might try something along the lines of "Pray God, woman - why do YOU need to speak more than 30 words to me tonight?"

Ask her why she needs a computer.

Doesn't she know that child pornography can be transmitted over the internet and computers facilitate that? If she really wanted the children to be safe, she would support the registration of high capacity disk drives and high definition displays. If not, she supports child pornography, plain and simple.

I mean, I think she could get by with a typewriter.

 

[Roadie]

here's some fodder for you..
Massad Ayoob » Blog Archive » WHY GOOD PEOPLE NEED SEMIAUTOMATIC FIREARMS AND

 

[Roadie]

Ask her why she needs a computer.

Doesn't she know that child pornography can be transmitted over the internet and computers facilitate that? If she really wanted the children to be safe, she would support the registration of high capacity disk drives and high definition displays. If not, she supports child pornography, plain and simple.

I mean, I think she could get by with a typewriter.

Great analogy..

 

[grogie]

here's some fodder for you..
Massad Ayoob » Blog Archive » WHY GOOD PEOPLE NEED SEMIAUTOMATIC FIREARMS AND

Excellent! Thanks.

Oh, and has the OP left yet? I'm staying home and I'm about to open some bubbly.

 

[techres]

You need to speak language she understands.
You need to ask her to give up something she cares about.

Ask her how she feels about "reasonable abortion laws".

I.E. Is she willing to give just a bit on her "rights to her own body" because we have a national tragedy of one kind or another? Or is her "right to her body" an absolute that there is no negotiation on?

Ask her if she, as a liberal, trusts pro-lifer's promises for just one, or maybe two more laws and that is just gonna be it? Or, maybe she has no trust in her for that?

So, theoretically, if it was provable that just one, or two laws encroaching on her "right to her body" was somehow for the public good - would she give up that right?

If that good was provable to be false, but instead was just an emotional salve, would she still give up that right?

If that good was just something she saw as a step towards a great goal no abortions, would she give in? Even if it was just something small, something she did not need?

Keep it that direction. Don't get too tied into what details could construe these examples - just ask the questions and get her answers as theoreticals.

If she is not willing to give any space, then tell her she understands how you feel. I.E. that absolute rights do not bow to the madness of crowds or the whims of political times.

If she is willing to give ground, then ask where the ground stops, where on the slope does she thing she can stop the boulder once it gets rolling.

And then finally ask her just how long she thinks it takes to swap a mag, and how much it matters when you have a pistol to backup the reload time.

 

[cobber]

Why do you need a gas tank that holds more than one days' fuel?

Why do you need more than one pair of shoes and set of clothes?

Why do you need a refrigerator that holds more than one day of food?

Why do you need a car any color other than black?

Seriously, what if you lived in LA during the riots? How many bullets would you need to defend your family? What if you guessed wrong? What if 11 very angry thugs attacked and you only had a 10 round magazine, because Diane Feinstein thought you might be a danger to schoolkids somewhere?

 

[techres]

Stay away from accepting the "need" argument. If you get accept it and end up debating your "need" then you will lose because they do not "feel" your need.

You actually need to get away from need and into "principle" debate. And it is easy to do.

Once again, use the abortion debate because it is emotional, predictable, and an absolute among liberals. Detaching from the need argument is as easy as this:

"Would you be willing to change your answers on your 'right to your body' once you no longer need them? Say, post menopause?"

"I mean, by them you will no longer 'need' those laws and the infringement will be more on your 'right' than on your actual life. So, once you no longer potentially 'need' an abortion, you will no longer care about the law, right?"

Once she tells you how full of crap your logic is, put in new posit:

"So is your answer NOT one of 'need' but IS one of 'rights'?"

That is how I would maneuver.

 

[nemo97]

Ask her if she has ever handled, been trained or shot a firearm? If the answer is "no," then invite her to the range on your dime. Libs love spending others money, after all.

 

[jbombelli]

People like that don't listen to reason. They're set in their ways, and nothing will ever change their mind. So, instead, I like to annoy them when those conversations come up.

Why do I carry a gun? In case I need to shoot some stupid ****** ****** that deserves it. Why do I carry "high capacity" magazines? In case I need to shoot LOTS of stupid ****** ******s that deserve it.

That's at least what I would say.