Newbie Reloading questions

[gmviso]

FACTS sought regarding reloading. (In particular .223 Remington/5.66mm NATO and 9mm luger.)

I suspect that given the costs associated with acquiring the reloading equipment, I would have to reload more cartridges than I have years left to break even so I do not want that factored in. I would view the reloading equipment the same as all of the other tools I own. They allow me to do a task.

1. So the first question is. If I possess an analytical mind and better than average mechanical abilities, how long will it take me (in number of reloads) before I am producing reliable ammuntion?

2. Can I expect my reloaded ammuntion to be less, more or as reliable as commercially manufactured ammo?

3. Is the shelf life of my reloaded ammo as good as that of commercial ammo?

4. If I have to purchase my casings, combined with the other raw materials and not including the cost of the tools, what can I expect each round of .223 or 9mm to cost me?

5. Given that for mass quantities I would want a bench press, would a backup hand press be of any value (I am thinking worse case long term SHTF scenario)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Eddie]

My thoughts

I can't comment on costs.

I store my reloaded ammo in ammo cans with a dessicant bag in each and find the shelf life to be the same as commercial ammo.

Buy a reloading manual first, you can get the Speer one at Walmart, use that as a guide. You can puschase a lot of the gear used. you should be able to produce reliable ammo on the first run.

Extra reloading gear might be good for trade WTSHTF, but it is only valuable to someone who knows how to reload and they are likely to have their own press.

I think that the real strength of reloading is in versatility. Once you have the press and the dies and learn to use them, you don't have to re-load every single piece of brass. You can store up powder, primers and a variety of brass and then make what you need. If you want to really keep your options open, invest in a lead furnace and some bullet molds.

 

[Big John]

You will never save money reloading!!!!!!!!

You just shoot more!!!!!!

The first batch will be the most expensive because of the brass.

With patients and practice you reloads will be better the factory.

Could NOT tell you about self life I shoot it up to fast.

 

[wolfman]

Fired brass for 9mm will run you from $25 to $35 per 1000. Primers between $30 to $40 per 1000 depending on how bad you want them, or how long you are willing to wait if you buy online. Powder between $15 and $30 per pound, and like primers, depends on how bad you want it, or how long you want to wait if you buy on line. Cost per round for powder, will depend on your charge weight, but once you have a manual, it is easy to figure since there are 7000 grains of powder in a pound. Bullets will depend on style, source, and quantity, and since I cast my own, I couldn't comment on cost.
Things you can do to reduce cost per round are, scrounge or reuse your brass, buy powder and primers in quantity on line, or go in with other reloaders on an order to spread the hazmat shipping fee out as much as you can. Finally spend more money up front, and cast your own boolits, this can end up being quite a bit of work, testing loads and lubes to minimize leading, but can save you a lot of money in the long run.

 

[antsi]

Re, shelf life: If you store your ammo in ideal conditions, commercial vs. military vs. reloads probably doesn't matter much. Where some of the military spec ammo really shines is how well it tolerates less-than-optimal conditions. Some preparedness fanatics stash away laquer-sealed ammo with sealed primer pockets and case mouths for just this reason. Wolf and other former Soviet Bloc ammo has a good reputation for functioning after being incompetently stored.

Re, reliability of reloads vs. commercial: I reload and prefer my reloads for all my shooting, but I do think commercial may be more reliable in some situations. Commercial ammo is formulated and tested to work in a wide variety of guns and a wide variety of conditions. Reloaders tend to custom-tailor their loads to the guns they own and the conditions they shoot in. I've had reloads that worked great in my guns - better than commercial - and then found out when I bought a new gun it didn't like my ammo. Some reloaders will even have different .223 loads for their ARs and their bolt guns. Anyone who reloads for a .30-06 hunting gun and a Garand is likely to have gun-specific ammo. It's easy to imagine how in a Katrina or other SHTF scenario, it would be a good thing to have commercial ammo that should function reasonably well in any gun.

I do know for certain, if we were in a post-SHTF situation and I was looking to barter for ammo, I'd much prefer to be getting commercial or mil spec than somebody's reloads.

Re, number of rounds before making reliable ammo: If you go through the process of researching your load, buying the correct components, and making test loads, your very first batch of ammo should be perfectly reliable. Having more experience reloading doesn't generally translate into greater reliability. More experience generally gets you better quality or increased quantity.

If you're producing unreliable ammo, as in, it doesn't function, that's usually the result of a gross error, not some subtle technique that only a super-experienced reloader would know.

Where reloaders generally go wrong is:
1) trying to go too fast - when you're new, you will be slow.
2) trying to make extreme loads, usually super-hot loads. There are a lot of reloaders who seem to think the best possible ammo is that which is just half a grain shy of blowing up the gun. You can also get in trouble by trying to go too light. I've always gotten the best results by aiming for a load right in the middle between minimum and maximum, then adjusting slightly.

Also, I don't see the need to buy new brass for 9mm Para. Range pick ups are fine for pistol ammo, or if you're really picky, you could get some once-fired brass from a military or police source that would be all the same headstamp.

New commercial brass would not be my choice for .223/5.56, either. Do a web search and buy 500 or 1000 rounds of prepped military brass - "prepped" including removing the primer pocket crimp. This would give you very good quality brass for a lot less $ than new commercial brass.

 

[NEOCON]

Antsi gave a very god answer. As as far as cost I just loaded up some .223 that shoots well in my AR but is mostly a plinking load that would do for self defense though just a little on the slow side. I have $170 in 1000 rounds I already had my brass so no cost for the brass. I bought everything local and no mail order. I did have a lot of time in case prep but it is kind of enjoyable.... no case prep sucks I won't lie.

 

[DaveD]

Just for grins, I bought the following:

100 Winchester cases .223
100 Winchester 64 gr PP bullets
Winchester primers and Powder

Cost for very accurate (in my AR) hunting/general purpose ammo = .73 cents each

BTW, I have scrounged must of my brass (LC) and buy the bullets/primers/powder and my cost using Hornady 75 gr BTHP per rd is 55 cents.

Like NEOCON stated .... case prep is what takes all the time and can be tedious I.E., clean, size/primer removal, trim, deburr, clean primer pockets, annealing, but - hey, I like the finished product.

 

[jblomenberg16]

FACTS sought regarding reloading. (In particular .223 Remington/5.66mm NATO and 9mm luger.)

I suspect that given the costs associated with acquiring the reloading equipment, I would have to reload more cartridges than I have years left to break even so I do not want that factored in. I would view the reloading equipment the same as all of the other tools I own. They allow me to do a task.

1. So the first question is. If I possess an analytical mind and better than average mechanical abilities, how long will it take me (in number of reloads) before I am producing reliable ammuntion?

2. Can I expect my reloaded ammuntion to be less, more or as reliable as commercially manufactured ammo?

3. Is the shelf life of my reloaded ammo as good as that of commercial ammo?

4. If I have to purchase my casings, combined with the other raw materials and not including the cost of the tools, what can I expect each round of .223 or 9mm to cost me?

5. Given that for mass quantities I would want a bench press, would a backup hand press be of any value (I am thinking worse case long term SHTF scenario)?

Thanks in advance.

I just got into reloading myself earlier this year. Here's what I have found.

1: I'm like you in that I'm analytical (engineer by trade), and have decent mechanical ability (complete car restoration level). My very first loads off the press worked and shot very well. Granted I followed the instructions very dilligently for each step, and used a known good load from a reloading manual.

2: Depending on components used, it will be just as reliable. I.e. quality powder, primer, brass, and bullets. The advantages of some of the military ammo are like another poster said in that some of it has sealed primer and bullet, and possibly some more stable powder and primers at extreme conditions.

3: I don't know...I seem to shoot it about as fast as I reload it, just like another poster said.

4: My rough estimate is that I have about $.25-.30 cents per round of .223 that I'm loading. Maybe I can get down to about $.20 if I really find bargains (hard to do though). Most of the brass I have is from other new ammo I've shot, so I can cut that out of the price too. Some really rough figures here for .223:

Primers are ~$35/1000
Bullets are ~$80/1000 (for basic 55gr FMJ. Of course this number goes up and down some depending on what you want).
Brass (new) ~$200/1000 or (once fired) ~ $100/1000


So, assuming those numbers are accurate for what you can find, you've got about $.23 per round in primer, brass, and bullet. Powder is going to vary a bit as well depending on how much you use.

I like Hogdgon H335, which goes for around $20/lb. 1lb of powder = 7000grains of powder. To make the math easy, assume 25grs of H335 powder (which is a good load for me). That says you'll get arbout 280 rounds per pound of powder with that load if you use every last grain of it. That works out to just a bit more than $.07 per round if the powder is at the price I mentioned.

That puts the grand total right at $.30 per round. I'm loading .223 for a little less than that per round right now because I bought most of the components in bulk, and re-using brass.

For an equivalent production M193, you can expect to pay from $300 to $400 per 1000 depending on the brand. At $300/1000 you really don't save anything, but at $400/1000 you do save around $1000 per thousand.

I figure that the investment in equipment that I have will be paid back in about 2000 rounds. Obviously the more expensive you reloading set-up, the longer the pay back.

I just started on 9mm, and haven't run the numbers yet for it, but expect it will be in the $.15 per round range.

5. I'm using a single stage Lee press. I works very well, but is slower than a progressive. Also, it could be easily transportable in a SHTF scenario.


As a new reloader myself, my final comments are this. It is a lot of fun, and you'll quickly realize it can be addicting. You will also realize that you really don't save much $$$ when you figure in the amount of time you spend at the bench reloading. However, there is a nice sense of accomplishment when you make your own ammo, and you don't have to worry about availability either. Need ammo? Just go make some, provided you have the equipment and components on hand.


Good luck!

 

[gmviso]

I just got into reloading myself earlier this year. Here's what I have found.

As a new reloader myself, my final comments are this. It is a lot of fun, and you'll quickly realize it can be addicting. You will also realize that you really don't save much $$$ when you figure in the amount of time you spend at the bench reloading. However, there is a nice sense of accomplishment when you make your own ammo, and you don't have to worry about availability either. Need ammo? Just go make some, provided you have the equipment and components on hand.


Good luck!

Thanks.

Exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I appreciate all of the time you spent.

Yours is yet another fine example of why this forum can be so beneficial.

 

[Jbrown]

I also am fairly new to reloading and agree with everything said, but want to add that I find reloading to be every bit as much fun as shooting. I love trying different setup's and then comparing my stats in my quest to build the perfect round.

 

[kludge]

1. So the first question is. If I possess an analytical mind and better than average mechanical abilities, how long will it take me (in number of reloads) before I am producing reliable ammuntion?

After a few adjustments (load a bullet with no primer or powder) your first batch should work just fine.

2. Can I expect my reloaded ammuntion to be less, more or as reliable as commercially manufactured ammo?

You will probably not reload enough rounds to know statistically the answer to this question. The big manufacturers know the answer to this question because they load millions and test thousands of rounds and there is a whole science devoted to such statistical techniques.

The only misfire I've ever had was with a Model 19 with target hammer and trigger that occasionally misfires factory ammo. (i.e. it's the gun not the ammo) The misfired round fired the next time a pulled the trigger on it.

3. Is the shelf life of my reloaded ammo as good as that of commercial ammo?

If you use fresh primers and powder, probably.

4. If I have to purchase my casings, combined with the other raw materials and not including the cost of the tools, what can I expect each round of .223 or 9mm to cost me?

If you purchase once fired cases, you can reload (based on buying components by the thousand) you will pay ~$8-$9 per box of 50 shooting FMJ. (It's real hard to compete with the factory on 9mm.) The next time you reload the brass it will be $7-$8/box

I reload .38 SPL (lead bullets) for ~$6/box which is A LOT cheaper than factory.

I've never done the math for .223 but for .308 it's about $9-10/box of 20 for match grade ammo, not counting the cost of brass (OK maybe it's not match grade, but at least it uses match bullets ). .223 is going to be much less than that since the bullets are much cheaper.

5. Given that for mass quantities I would want a bench press, would a backup hand press be of any value (I am thinking worse case long term SHTF scenario)?

Thanks in advance.

I don't have an answer for that one.

 

[mdemetz]

4. If I have to purchase my casings, combined with the other raw materials and not including the cost of the tools, what can I expect each round of .223 or 9mm to cost me?

This spreadsheet(download XLS file) will show you costs;
Glock Talk - Reloading

 

[Fixer]

Reloading usually results in a more consistent round. I load for my 7mm Rem Mag and save a considerable amount versus factory ammo of the same performance level. I have found it true also that the more I reload the more I shoot the more I reload!!! It probably does cost more, but it is just too much fun to stop now. I found this cost calculator that is wonderful for calculating reloading costs. You have to know all the specifics but it should be in your reloading manual. The rest is the cost of the individual components. You just plug in the numbers and you get a cost of per round, per 50, or per 1000. It is very handy and easy to use. Good luck and be safe.

Link to calculator:
Handloading Cost Calculator

 

[jimbojr]

From what I have seen all agree you can build your own custom round.
Cost well that veries with a multiful of factors, What and how you aquire your material ect.

The 1 thing I will say is it takes time. Every round will pass thru your hands several times weather it be for tumbling, sizing, inspection it all takes time. That is the my only problem if finding enough spare to get into the grove. But when you get it down and find that sweet load that complaments your gun it is all worth it.

 

[bigbore]

1. So the first question is. If I possess an analytical mind and better than average mechanical abilities, how long will it take me (in number of reloads) before I am producing reliable ammunition?

You can produce reliable ammo immediately. Accurate ammo is a different story. Just like factory ammo where certain brands work better than others, you will need to find the sweet spot for each gun. Bullet weight, powder charge, and powder type are the three most important factors. Brass and primers are less so.

2. Can I expect my reloaded ammunition to be less, more or as reliable as commercially manufactured ammo?

It will be just as reliable as long as you pay attention and are careful.

3. Is the shelf life of my reloaded ammo as good as that of commercial ammo?

Yes

4. If I have to purchase my casings, combined with the other raw materials and not including the cost of the tools, what can I expect each round of .223 or 9mm to cost me?

.15-30 cents a round. The biggest variables are bullets. Lead is the cheapest $30/500 and jacketed $30/100. Powder is about $20-25/lb, primers $30-50/1000 (if you can find them), and brass is $15-30/100 (but you can reuse it 10x-20x)

5. Given that for mass quantities I would want a bench press, would a backup hand press be of any value (I am thinking worse case long term SHTF scenario)?

I don't think you should get one for a SHTF situation as you will have to lug all the supplies and misc. tools as well such as scales, calipers, pullers, etc.

A hand press is best for range use if you want to mix up your loads on the spot rather than at home.