Night vision. Googles vs monocular?

[Rookie]

That was my recommendation for foszoe. For you, I'm not sure. I dipped my toes into night vision, but, for my application, it didn't work. I would recommend white phosphor based on my experience, but, beyond that, I'll leave it up to more knowledgeable people to give advice.

 

[Rookie]

I will also second the advice to avoid ATN. They excel in marketing, but they sorely lack in customer support and quality. If you look at the big players in night vision and thermal (TNVC, Night Goggles, etc) you will notice they don't sell ATN. There's a reason for that...

 

[AllenM]

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

A minor nuance that Sheepdog might have left out, a device like a PVS7 is not a dual tube, but you still get to use both eyes. Is that what you meant by goggles? Both eyes vs one eye?

Before overwhelming you with internet advice, give TNVC a call.


Before you start, consider this, nightvision only has one focal point. The farther you get away from that focus, the fuzzier things are. This is important to realize but is difficult to explain unless you have some experience.

Other things to consider (Goods and Bads):

Things like a PVS7: Very comfortable for extended use for observation. Probably the most comfortable option. Very tunnel-vision like feeling for moving around. This cannot be understated. Limited field of view. Kills your natural nightvision. Both eyes are focused at the same distance.

PVS14: Great things like adjustable gain on the tube. Easy to head-mount and wear. Only one eye has the monocle. Same limited FOV as the PVS7, but only one eye is covered. Preserves natural night vision in the uncovered eye. Potentially headache inducing because the eye with the monocle does not necessarily perfectly overlay images of the real world with you un-aided eye. Training and experience are required.

PVS15: True binocular vision but increased costs. And as mentioned before, each tube is focused independently. Most folks opt to focus one eye close and the other farther out depending on circumstances. Admittedly, I don't have a lot of experience with these. My NV funds ran out before I got to this point.

There are cheaper and more expensive options and lots of folks are willing to help you spend your money.

NODs are really cool and certainly offers huge advantages at night. Believe it or not I tried my best to limit rambling on this very extensive topic.

Good luck!

 

[Latewatch]

Do your research, as already mentioned AR15.com has an excellent Night Vision forum and you can learn a ton over there from people who are extremely knowledgeable.

"Buy once, cry once" is also excellent advise for night vision. Figure out your needs and your budget and then commit to buying the highest quality stuff you can afford and don't forget to set aside sufficient funds for all of the ancillary equipment you'll need and/or want to make your set up function the way you want it to.

 

[obijohn]

just to add $0.02. Our vets group hunts hogs with PVS 14's. Some wear the skull crusher some a helmet. We are evenly split between NV on the dominant eye using a NV compatible RDS and NV on the support eye using a dim RDS on the dominant eye. We harvest a bunch of hogs every trip.

 

[sgthud]

All the guys I knew that hunted used Thermal, but all my experience is with NV...I favored the PVS14

 

[mike4]

I wondered the same thing as Karl on the initial post, that is to be sure you are asking about true two tube binocular versus monocular, and not the AN/PVS-7 which is both eyes/one tube. Here is a combination of truth and some opinion from 22 years of mostly AN/PVS-14 experience:

1. If you need to fly or drive a vehicle at any kind of significant speeds you need two tubes to support your binocular vision so your brain can compute for depth perception.
2. Typical usage on foot I prefer the benefit Karl also mentioned for head-mounted monocular of having full peripheral natural vision in one eye. This also helps to determine when there are sources of light bright enough to be seen with normal vision, or awareness you have moved into an area of greater ambient light or otherwise have light cast on you where you may then be more visible than you want to be. The view within NV is also bright enough to break down your natural night vision which takes 20 or more minutes in darkness to maximize, so single eye NV preserves natural night vision as a fallback for the off eye. For me the NV works best on my dominant eye.
3. AN/PVS-7 with a good tube is way better than nothing, but is really the worst of both worlds; lacking the depth of true binocular while blowing the advantages of natural vision in one eye.
4. There are some newer styles, but the original USGI "skull crusher" headmount is the worst piece of NV gear ever fielded by the US in my lifetime. It serves no purpose except being placed in the original zippered pouch so you have a complete set of accessories if you offer your NV for sale later. I would rather wear the extra weight of my 2000s era config PASGT helmet + Oregon Aero BLSS kit than the skull crusher because it is 10x more comfortable. Look into the Crye Night Cap for greater comfort (and probably add some amount of counterweight if you don't have a battery pack that can locate in back) as well as more compact storage and transport versus a helmet when you are not wearing it.
5. Weapon-mounted nightvision is impractical and nearly useless except for longer range stand-off weapons, head mounted provides the most value with the continuous support for movement and situational awareness. You may not even have clearance to pan a weapon where you want indoors, dense growth, riding in a vehicle, or hands-busy driving an ATV, etc.
6. A weapon-mounted IR laser is essential for rapid engagement. It's very hard to get yourself positioned behind an Aimpoint, EOTch or other optic with night vision settings because the NV tube is banging into the back of the optic, plus having to line up the axis of the NV almost perfectly with the axis of the optic to see through it.

 

[tradertator]

I wanted a minimalist NV setup for work years ago, and went with the PVS-14. I really liked how lightweight the unit was, and it's compact size.

I often wore it on a lanyard around my neck or in a Crye NightCap with a Wilcox mount & lanyard. The lanyard isn't necessary, but make sure to dummy chord it to your mount. The Crye cap felt as secure as a helmet, without the weight. That said, a helmet is more versatile, such as mounting your ear-pro, supplemental light source, etc.... plus adding obvious ballistic protection if needed. The Skull Crusher was torture, and it went into the trash ASAP.

I supplemented the light with a handheld Surefire Vampire light, which really made a difference.

Honestly couldn't have been happier with the setup, other than it was non auto-gated. That worried me, because it was used primarily in urban settings, with a ton of stray ambient light sources.

Mounting the unit on the weapon behind an optic sucked, so I shot exclusively with a PEQ-15 IR aiming device.

Another PVS-14 is high on my current wish list.

 

[AllenM]

Alot of helpful advice.
Thanks

 

[sheepdog697]

Avoid the pvs-7s at all cost. Any of the people that use night vision for an extended period of time will recommend the 14 over a 7. Unless you got a STELLAR deal on a pvs7 i would stay away. They are almost the same price as a 14, and the pvs14 is superior.

 

[sheepdog697]

I wondered the same thing as Karl on the initial post, that is to be sure you are asking about true two tube binocular versus monocular, and not the AN/PVS-7 which is both eyes/one tube. Here is a combination of truth and some opinion from 22 years of mostly AN/PVS-14 experience:

1. If you need to fly or drive a vehicle at any kind of significant speeds you need two tubes to support your binocular vision so your brain can compute for depth perception.
2. Typical usage on foot I prefer the benefit Karl also mentioned for head-mounted monocular of having full peripheral natural vision in one eye. This also helps to determine when there are sources of light bright enough to be seen with normal vision, or awareness you have moved into an area of greater ambient light or otherwise have light cast on you where you may then be more visible than you want to be. The view within NV is also bright enough to break down your natural night vision which takes 20 or more minutes in darkness to maximize, so single eye NV preserves natural night vision as a fallback for the off eye. For me the NV works best on my dominant eye.
3. AN/PVS-7 with a good tube is way better than nothing, but is really the worst of both worlds; lacking the depth of true binocular while blowing the advantages of natural vision in one eye.
4. There are some newer styles, but the original USGI "skull crusher" headmount is the worst piece of NV gear ever fielded by the US in my lifetime. It serves no purpose except being placed in the original zippered pouch so you have a complete set of accessories if you offer your NV for sale later. I would rather wear the extra weight of my 2000s era config PASGT helmet + Oregon Aero BLSS kit than the skull crusher because it is 10x more comfortable. Look into the Crye Night Cap for greater comfort (and probably add some amount of counterweight if you don't have a battery pack that can locate in back) as well as more compact storage and transport versus a helmet when you are not wearing it.
5. Weapon-mounted nightvision is impractical and nearly useless except for longer range stand-off weapons, head mounted provides the most value with the continuous support for movement and situational awareness. You may not even have clearance to pan a weapon where you want indoors, dense growth, riding in a vehicle, or hands-busy driving an ATV, etc.
6. A weapon-mounted IR laser is essential for rapid engagement. It's very hard to get yourself positioned behind an Aimpoint, EOTch or other optic with night vision settings because the NV tube is banging into the back of the optic, plus having to line up the axis of the NV almost perfectly with the axis of the optic to see through it.

Agree 100%. Good post

 

[Small's]

I drove about 2 miles in the dark with mine last winter my kids where in the back seat and where freaking out. I would be to if I wasn't driving! Lol. It's a single tube filmed tvnc gen 3 in the green
I was impressed with how well it worked. When I first used it I thought maybe the depth perception was off but every time I grabbed for something it was where I thought it was. This may be because I had the unit on my dominant eye. I walked in the woods for 3 hours without having to touch a light. Up and down hills across creeks etc. The dual tubes and white phosphorus are nice but what could you do with that extra 5-8 thousand dollars. You could get a pretty nice used setup if things cool down. I looked for prolly 6-8 months for the right deal.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

After re-reading the posts here and reviewing my own, I would like to add a clarification.

Where I said that NV has a single focus: That is true for any single point of time, but focus is adjustable and can be changed by the user to suit the current situation.

What I was trying to get at is that the focus does not change automatically like using a digital camera. The user is required to adjust as-needed.

Example, if you are adjusted for walking in an open field where the focus is set for 25 yards or so, you will not be able to see anything clearly close up without adjusting the focus. Then, to resume your travel you will have to adjust the focus again to see things clearly at approach distances.

Trying to get the best possible clarity on something 100 yards out with an illuminator? You will need to focus again. It is what it is. I just thought it might be helpful to understand how it is used vs making it sound like there was only one unalterable focus point.

I guess I will have to admit sheepdog and I have a differing view regarding the PVS7. It does not have the adjustable gain of the 14s. It is heavier, and as already stated it has several drawbacks, but for sitting stationary in an observation mode only, I prefer them. To each his own. Everyone's experience varies.

Back when I bought mine there was a significant cost difference between the 7 and 14. Later, I upgraded to the 14 because of the positives already listed. But I was not compelled in any way to get rid of the 7. They are still really useful. Plus, mine has a really good blemish-free tube.

Then again, I still have a Gen2+ unit that I wouldn't sell but would willingly share with a friend if the need arises just because NV is just so d@mned cool!


Allen, if expecting to operate in the dark, any NV is better than no NV. Beware the game of gotta have the best, but it is your dollar and decision. There is always a higher standard to obtain and something new to chase. NV is an addicting better-than-yours game. Buy the best-of-the-best today and tomorrow someone will cr@p all over it because they just bought the latest and greatest.

Buy something good, use it, enjoy it and the advantages it offers.

Peace!

 

[sheepdog697]

After re-reading the posts here and reviewing my own, I would like to add a clarification.

Where I said that NV has a single focus: That is true for any single point of time, but focus is adjustable and can be changed by the user to suit the current situation.

What I was trying to get at is that the focus does not change automatically like using a digital camera. The user is required to adjust as-needed.

Example, if you are adjusted for walking in an open field where the focus is set for 25 yards or so, you will not be able to see anything clearly close up without adjusting the focus. Then, to resume your travel you will have to adjust the focus again to see things clearly at approach distances.

Trying to get the best possible clarity on something 100 yards out with an illuminator? You will need to focus again. It is what it is. I just thought it might be helpful to understand how it is used vs making it sound like there was only one unalterable focus point.

I guess I will have to admit sheepdog and I have a differing view regarding the PVS7. It does not have the adjustable gain of the 14s. It is heavier, and as already stated it has several drawbacks, but for sitting stationary in an observation mode only, I prefer them. To each his own. Everyone's experience varies.

Back when I bought mine there was a significant cost difference between the 7 and 14. Later, I upgraded to the 14 because of the positives already listed. But I was not compelled in any way to get rid of the 7. They are still really useful. Plus, mine has a really good blemish-free tube.

Then again, I still have a Gen2+ unit that I wouldn't sell but would willingly share with a friend if the need arises just because NV is just so d@mned cool!


Allen, if expecting to operate in the dark, any NV is better than no NV. Beware the game of gotta have the best, but it is your dollar and decision. There is always a higher standard to obtain and something new to chase. NV is an addicting better-than-yours game. Buy the best-of-the-best today and tomorrow someone will cr@p all over it because they just bought the latest and greatest.

Buy something good, use it, enjoy it and the advantages it offers.

Peace!

I always set my night vision to infinity focus. Find the farthest object i can, then adjust front to rear then front again. Both sides. Also, If you buy some butler creek caps and punch a hole in the mile of them (with a spent 5.56 casing) you can get close focus. Specific butler creek cap number is the 09A. Basically flip them down when you enter a building or are doing admin stuff up close. When you pop them up, you still have your infinity focus. To be honest, i usually run them with the caps off, and havent touched the focus since i bought them. My friend has some tarsier eclipse which are $250 a pop and do the exact same thing,... just look fancier.


Comes from this thread
Butler creek scope cap for pvs-14 - AR15.COM

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

I always set my night vision to infinity focus. Find the farthest object i can, then adjust front to rear then front again. Both sides. Also, If you buy some butler creek caps and punch a hole in the mile of them (with a spent 5.56 casing) you can get close focus. Specific butler creek cap number is the 09A. Basically flip them down when you enter a building or are doing admin stuff up close. When you pop them up, you still have your infinity focus. To be honest, i usually run them with the caps off, and havent touched the focus since i bought them. My friend has some tarsier eclipse which are $250 a pop and do the exact same thing,... just look fancier.


Comes from this thread
Butler creek scope cap for pvs-14 - AR15.COM

Yep. I have gone the Butler Creek cap route as well. With the PVS14 the little release mechanism made contact with the NV body and interferes with the range of focus.

I thought I was being cool by getting a rear scope cover with the button release mechanism, but that didn't work out so well. I should have just went with the frontside caps in the first place.

Generally, I probably fiddle around with the focus too much.

Other than messing around in the house, thankfully, I don't have any requirement to wear NV inside. (Insert Silence of the Lambs joke here)