No sale to military?

[Airborne33]

Was at one vendor with my buddy today. We were taking a break from the Army setup and he saw a Taurus he'd been talking about for a while. The vendor would not sell to him even though he brought his orders and military ID with him. We were in uniform I don't think there would be a question of whether or not he was actual military... is this some sort of gun show rule. No sale to out of state license. Even if Active duty military? I know for a fact I can buy a handgun in this state.

 

[JetGirl]

Was at one vendor with my buddy today. We were taking a break from the Army setup and he saw a Taurus he'd been talking about for a while. The vendor would not sell to him even though he brought his orders and military ID with him. We were in uniform I don't think there would be a question of whether or not he was actual military... is this some sort of gun show rule. No sale to out of state license. Even if Active duty military? I know for a fact I can buy a handgun in this state.

Might have something to do with where you're stationed. If I recall, I think your drivers license has to have your current residence listed and it has to be IN or else the dealer has to ship to the FFL where you are currently living.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I've heard two schools of thought on this in another thread. One is that the service members home state is their legal state of residence, the other states that the state of the persons command is their place of residence. I don't know which is right if either, but thought I'd throw it out there. I personally wouldn't take the chance if I weren't certain and also know that it is entirely justifiable to refuse a sale for whatever reason a person chooses.

 

[Airborne33]

I'm stationed here in Indy. I am a recruiter. I've never changed driver's license since joining in 2004. I've been to Arizona, Washington, North Carolina, and here. I've never once seen an issue until today.

For most people yes, you need a driver's license from the state you are purchasing in. The rules have been different for military personnel in most states though. I know for a fact that you can buy pistols in this state on Military ID and Military license. I'm just confused on why a "reputable" vendor would not know this and or not take half a second to look into it.

 

[mrjarrell]

I've seen vendors at the 1500 do that once before. They denied a guy an AR purchase, even though he had all his stuff and even after someone explained it to them. Fear of the BATFU is a strong thing.

 

[singlesix]

I'm stationed here in Indy. I am a recruiter. I've never changed driver's license since joining in 2004. I've been to Arizona, Washington, North Carolina, and here. I've never once seen an issue until today.

For most people yes, you need a driver's license from the state you are purchasing in. The rules have been different for military personnel in most states though. I know for a fact that you can buy pistols in this state on Military ID and Military license. I'm just confused on why a "reputable" vendor would not know this and or not take half a second to look into it.

This was 20 years ago (wow I'm long in the tooth), but only if the State was your PCS duty station. TDY status doesn't count. I still had to show a copy of my orders assigning me to the Post before the gun shop would sell a gun.

 

[Airborne33]

Well this is nothing crazy. We both have orders putting us here as PCS. We both know that Military ID and Orders putting you in the state you are purchasing at are enough. I luckily wasn't thinking I needed to buy a pistol today.

This is a nice state. However I am simply here because the Army put me here. If someone thinks that I don't look like the type of person they can sell a gun to, then I'm not sure who they are catering to. Even more so when I am in uniform you know?

 

[Michiana]

Here is the rule

If you are purchasing a gun in this state you need a government photo ID showing your residence and it has to match the address you put on the 4473 form. If your drivers license does not match your Indiana residence you need another government photo ID with your IN residence on it. Being in the active military does not allow you to purchase a firearm even if you provide a military ID. Again, the address on your photo ID MUST be the same as the one you provide on form 4473.

I ran into this twice in the past few months and both times the customers had to go get their drivers license upgraded to show their present address before I could transfer their guns to them. Don't blame the vendor, he is just following the law.

 

[Colt556]

I know of a couple dealers who won't sell to anyone w/o an Indiana DL or State ID.

 

[Airborne33]

This is just insane to me. I guess I will have to spend some time reading the law and understanding it myself.

 

[Michiana]

read the instructions on the form 4473

This is just insane to me. I guess I will have to spend some time reading the law and understanding it myself.

Pull up a copy of form 4473 from the internet and read about acceptable ID and it will explain it to you. I still have not figured out what an acceptable government issued photo ID would be besides your drivers license unless you go get a regular IN ID card at the DMV. Most "other types" of government issued photo ID's would not have your home address on them.

 

[Airborne33]

IC 35-47-2.5-5
Documentation of personal identification and residence
Sec. 5. (a) To establish personal identification and residence in Indiana for purposes of this chapter, a dealer must require a prospective purchaser to present one (1) photographic identification form issued by a governmental agency of the state or by the United States Department of Defense, or other documentation of residence.
(b) Except when photographic identification was issued by the United States Department of Defense, other documentation of residence must show an address identical to that shown on the photographic identification form or as amended by proper notice of change of address filed with the issuing authority. Suitable other documentation of residence includes:
(1) evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax, a current lease, utility, or telephone bill, a voter registration card, a bank check, a passport, an automobile registration, or a hunting or fishing license;
(2) other current identification allowed as evidence of residency by 27 CFR 178.124 and United States Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Ruling 79-7; or
(3) other documentation of residence, determined to be acceptable by the state police department, that corroborates that the prospective purchaser currently resides in Indiana.
(c) If the photographic identification was issued by the United States Department of Defense, permanent orders may be used as documentation of residence.


Pulled off of Indiana Code 35-47-2.5
Our Common Access Cards (Known as CACs) are issued by the United States Army. We have Permanent Orders showing us on assignment to Indiana. Unless I am reading this incorrectly, a dealer can legally sell a firearm to me. I don't legally need anything more than my Military ID and said Orders.

 

[Airborne33]

Does this settle things? Should I print this out and carry it with me tomorrow?

 

[ThrottleJockey]

IC 35-47-2.5-5
Documentation of personal identification and residence
Sec. 5. (a) To establish personal identification and residence in Indiana for purposes of this chapter, a dealer must require a prospective purchaser to present one (1) photographic identification form issued by a governmental agency of the state or by the United States Department of Defense, or other documentation of residence.
(b) Except when photographic identification was issued by the United States Department of Defense, other documentation of residence must show an address identical to that shown on the photographic identification form or as amended by proper notice of change of address filed with the issuing authority. Suitable other documentation of residence includes:
(1) evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax, a current lease, utility, or telephone bill, a voter registration card, a bank check, a passport, an automobile registration, or a hunting or fishing license;
(2) other current identification allowed as evidence of residency by 27 CFR 178.124 and United States Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Ruling 79-7; or
(3) other documentation of residence, determined to be acceptable by the state police department, that corroborates that the prospective purchaser currently resides in Indiana.
(c) If the photographic identification was issued by the United States Department of Defense, permanent orders may be used as documentation of residence.


Pulled off of Indiana Code 35-47-2.5
Our Common Access Cards (Known as CACs) are issued by the United States Army. We have Permanent Orders showing us on assignment to Indiana. Unless I am reading this incorrectly, a dealer can legally sell a firearm to me. I don't legally need anything more than my Military ID and said Orders.

Looks good enough to me, but considering the crowd they probably just figured it wasn't worth the chance and decided to sell to the next guy in line.

 

[Michiana]

Did you have a copy of your orders with you?

Pulled off of Indiana Code 35-47-2.5
Our Common Access Cards (Known as CACs) out issued by the United States Army. We have Permanent Orders showing us on assignment to Indiana. Unless I am reading this incorrectly, a dealer can legally sell a firearm to me. I don't legally need anything more than my Military ID and said Orders.
[/quote]


You didn't mention you had a copy of your orders with you showing you were stationed in IN. That he could accept as proof of residence along with a government issued photo ID. What they want from the FFL is to make sure that the person receiving the firearm is a resident of Indiana and are who they say they are by the photo ID.

 

[00BlasterResto]

Look at this way, now he has time to rethink the taurus.

 

[Airborne33]

I know there will be people out there in a hurry, and like you said would rather get a quick easy sale than have to take a second to do things differently and look at paperwork and ID's they don't know how to read.

In the end it's their loss. Something that would take only a couple minutes either way, and a sale - money talks usually. I know most people in the 1500 were window shopping. Again.. surprised me and kind of left me feeling a bit insulted in a way.

Well glad that issue was resolved.

 

[Airborne33]

I thought I did mention orders, either way we mentioned it to the dealer. I might print this out.. take it to them tomorrow ask them if they will sell to me and then say no thanks. I won't lead them on any further, I would just hate for another Joe to be embarrassed in public like that.

 

[Michiana]

I thought I did mention orders, either way we mentioned it to the dealer. I might print this out.. take it to them tomorrow ask them if they will sell to me and then say no thanks. I won't lead them on any further, I would just hate for another Joe to be embarrassed in public like that.

Sorry, I missed seeing he had his orders with him; as long as they said he was stationed in the State of Indiana that should have been good enough along with a govenment issued photo ID. He should be good to go; tell the FFL to read the ID instructions on the form.

 

[Airborne33]

In everyone's defense, I didn't state that he had order on him for Indiana. I just stated orders. I understand that if I was stationed in Washington I couldn't just buy a gun in some random state. I was only 90% sure about the regulation before.. now I feel like I had a good understanding. Thanks guys.