Non-Licensed Shooter

[rmabrey]

You cannot CARRY it (so don't walk off with it) without a license, but the law stops there. You can shoot it, clean it, load/unload all you want.

And no, the word "carry" is not well defined. I believe case law has limited it to transport, but I don't have a citation.

What he said

 

[DCR]

EXCELLENT !
This is what I THOUGHT I knew. Thank you!

 

[kludge]

I can find no place in the Indiana Code that gives any person a defense if they are arrested while "carrying" (not defined in the code) a handgun "on or about the person's body" or "in any vehicle" without a LTCH any place other than... the person's dwelling, property, fixed place of business.

Can you shoot a handgun without having it "on or about your person"? If you are shooting a gun, there is no question that you are definitely in control of the firearm, and it is on or about your person.

I know of no case law. What then is "carry"? It's a very good question.

Everyone seems to think it's legal, as do I*, but if some police officer and prosecutor get a bug up their butt, and decide to go after people at shooting ranges, how will one defend himself when there is no specific defense written into the law, thus allowing the prosecutor and judge and your lawyer to fight over what "carry" means.

IOW, anyone over 18 who might touch a hangun should get a license.

Children have a law codified to protect them, and those who provide guns to them, at shooting ranges.

Adults do not. Why?

* The reason I think this way is because there is a section in the Code that allows for rental, and I've never heard of anyone being arrested for CWOL for renting a gun. And there are enough cops a Pop Guns, that if it was going to happen, it would have happened. Also, if you couldn't touch/hold a handgun without a license, why would a dealer even let you touch one (like in some unmentionable states), or let you rent one and shoot it.

 

[IndyClay]

I just had a conversation with my cousins (one Muncie PD, the other a Delaware Cnty Deputy) this past week about the paradox. Both said that I could come with them to the police range and shoot my new handgun without a LTCH and their firearms trainer would even give me pointers. "As long as my pistol was locked in the trunk separate from the ammo coming from Indy...I should be OK." I know after reading a sticky post from a letter received from the ISP super's office, this is not technically legal. Will I take advantage of the offer if I do not recieve my LTCH soon?, yes I will. Obviously even some IN LEOs think the law is messed up, that someone can legally purchase a handgun but that they cannot legally become skilled in its use unless they own land out in the boonies. I guess if stopped I will say I am having my gun repaired in Muncie. ha

 

[rmabrey]

I just had a conversation with my cousins (one Muncie PD, the other a Delaware Cnty Deputy) this past week about the paradox. Both said that I could come with them to the police range and shoot my new handgun without a LTCH and their firearms trainer would even give me pointers. "As long as my pistol was locked in the trunk separate from the ammo coming from Indy...I should be OK." I know after reading a sticky post from a letter received from the ISP super's office, this is not technically legal. Will I take advantage of the offer if I do not recieve my LTCH soon?, yes I will. Obviously even some IN LEOs think the law is messed up, that someone can legally purchase a handgun but that they cannot legally become skilled in its use unless they own land out in the boonies. I guess if stopped I will say I am having my gun repaired in Muncie. ha

good luck with this

 

[kludge]

And if you get arrested, you will add 5 years to your wait for your LTCH.

Hmmm... 8 weeks or 5 years + lawyer $$$ ???

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

WOW.. I love how we cant get a straight answer due to the vague law.

I always thought carry meant on one's person and transport meant unloaded, in a case designed for a firearm in an area not easily obtained by the person.

So a NON LTCH person could buy a gun at cabella's, toss it in their trunk and head home no problem. So now you guys are telling me that this is not legal?

 

[Bendrx]

You can take it home, but you have to go home and can't take a 6 month "detour". Once it is home, you can't take it out until you are moving to a new residence, or if it were to break (not that you could shoot in in the city) you could take it to be repaired.

 

[IndyClay]

We need more firearms "repair"/ shooting ranges in Indiana (esp in Indy) so that those of us who don't have our LTCH yet can legally transport our pistols to a place for "repair" and practice. ...what a ridiculous, swiss-cheese like law.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

As long as you stay with her, yes she can shoot handguns at a private range.

 

[cosermann]

... I have a permit to carry, however my girlfriend does not. ...

On another note, has she applied for a LTCH yet?
Good example of why she should.

 

[singlestacksig]

if you do not own or reside or work on the property you need to have LTCH.

I spoke at length with ISP firearms div ..
My brother in law helps on my ag. property.. he is non resident, no LTCH..
could i give him on of my pistols to have while on my property?
ISP says no..
if a LTCH holder is not there.

 

[Customgod227]

On another note, has she applied for a LTCH yet?
Good example of why she should.

She's not the type to carry. I got her to the point where she is comfortable with me having one and all. So, all-in-all, not 100% Pro-2A yet, maybe 36.7% thus far.

 

[cosermann]

She's not the type to carry. I got her to the point where she is comfortable with me having one and all. So, all-in-all, not 100% Pro-2A yet, maybe 36.7% thus far.

She's not the type to carry . . . like, ever?

Only you can decide how much time you're willing to spend on a girlfriend who doesn't support the 2A and firearms. Continued stasis of her positions on these issues, after your friendly educational efforts and a bit of time for her to think/work through it, would tell me something about her worldview, thought processes, and objective perception of reality that, frankly, would make me cautious of further involvement. I know you didn't ask, and it's just my opinion, , and all that. Just trying to help a man avoid future grief. So, take it FWIW.

 

[Customgod227]

I wouldnt say "EVER", but it would take some time to get her to that point. I can see in the not so distant future her carrying, but i have to take baby steps to get her to be comfortable doing so. I will gladly take my time making sure she is ready to carry. The last thing i want to is through a firearm in her purse (providing she is licensed) and tell her to be on her way. All in time brother.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I wouldnt say "EVER", but it would take some time to get her to that point. I can see in the not so distant future her carrying, but i have to take baby steps to get her to be comfortable doing so. I will gladly take my time making sure she is ready to carry. The last thing i want to is through a firearm in her purse (providing she is licensed) and tell her to be on her way. All in time brother.

With the Lifetime LTCH, I too would suggest that she get the license ASAP. Having it does not mean she has to carry, but not having it means she cannot, and as Scutter pointed out, if your pistol is under the seat while you run into the post office or park on the street to go into a k-12 school or daycare and she remains in the vehicle, she is in violation of the law and would become a felon because of something she didn't do.

During the L.A. riots, many famous Hollywood-types who had railed for years against guns and in favor of waiting periods, etc., are said to have gone to gun stores wanting to buy a gun for their own defense, only to find that yes, they could make the purchase, but they would have to wait whatever period of time it was (two weeks, I think) to come pick it up and take it home. The laws for which they'd fought came back to bite them in the posterior. God forbid that your girlfriend should be threatened at work or elsewhere and decide *today* that she needs a firearm for her own safety.... and yes, it really can happen that fast.... She would have to wait for the license to come in.

It's $125 and very, VERY worth it. Think of it as cheap insurance: A lifetime policy for $125.00 total.

Good luck and as always,
Blessings,
Bill

 

[rimfire_crazed]

We need more firearms "repair"/ shooting ranges in Indiana (esp in Indy) so that those of us who don't have our LTCH yet can legally transport our pistols to a place for "repair" and practice. ...what a ridiculous, swiss-cheese like law.

Just get the darned license. The absolute easiest way to solve all of your problems and concerns with the law. We can complain about Indiana handgun law for days on end but it doesn't even come CLOSE to how bad it is in other states.

 

[Bill of Rights]

She's not the type to carry . . . like, ever?

Only you can decide how much time you're willing to spend on a girlfriend who doesn't support the 2A and firearms. Continued stasis of her positions on these issues, after your friendly educational efforts and a bit of time for her to think/work through it, would tell me something about her worldview, thought processes, and objective perception of reality that, frankly, would make me cautious of further involvement. I know you didn't ask, and it's just my opinion, , and all that. Just trying to help a man avoid future grief. So, take it FWIW.

From another perspective, my wife does not carry and will not carry. When I first started, she looked at me like I was insane and even asked me why I was carrying in the house or made comments when we went somewhere and I made sure I had it on me before we left. I even got things like, "Why are you carrying that to the store?"

She's been to the range with me once.

Sounds pretty bleak, huh?

I said she does not and will not carry. She supports (now) that I do. She understands that bad s*** happens and that "gun free zones" and "gun control" are worthless, feel-good sop. Since those first questions and comments, I've been asked before we leave somewhere, "You have your gun, right?" For that matter, my daughter made no bones about the fact that she voted for Obama (the idealism and shallow world-view of youth) but the other day, we had to go into a building that had once been an elementary school that currently houses (among other things) a daycare. She saw me park on the street and put my pistol away securely and commented, "That's stupid that you can't carry in here." She's not been particularly pro-gun herself, but she does seem to "get it", even if she thinks Dad takes it a little too far sometimes.

I also know a couple, both of whom are very, VERY pro-gun. Neither has a problem owning or using guns, and God help the person who made a move toward their baby, because no one else would stand a chance in hell. She, however, is not comfortable carrying on a regular basis for a variety of reasons, but I doubt you'll find too many people who are more pro-gun rights than the couple I'm talking about. A few years ago, though, she hated guns and had no use for them. Time, wisdom, and life experiences change opinions. I recognize what you were saying and trying to warn him of, but I'd say that just the fact that she doesn't carry does not make her anti-2A.



Blessings,
Bill

 

[BC9]

I can find no place in the Indiana Code that gives any person a defense if they are arrested while "carrying" (not defined in the code) a handgun "on or about the person's body" or "in any vehicle" without a LTCH any place other than... the person's dwelling, property, fixed place of business.

Can you shoot a handgun without having it "on or about your person"? If you are shooting a gun, there is no question that you are definitely in control of the firearm, and it is on or about your person.

I know of no case law. What then is "carry"? It's a very good question.

Everyone seems to think it's legal, as do I*, but if some police officer and prosecutor get a bug up their butt, and decide to go after people at shooting ranges, how will one defend himself when there is no specific defense written into the law, thus allowing the prosecutor and judge and your lawyer to fight over what "carry" means.

IOW, anyone over 18 who might touch a hangun should get a license.

Children have a law codified to protect them, and those who provide guns to them, at shooting ranges.

Adults do not. Why?

* The reason I think this way is because there is a section in the Code that allows for rental, and I've never heard of anyone being arrested for CWOL for renting a gun. And there are enough cops a Pop Guns, that if it was going to happen, it would have happened. Also, if you couldn't touch/hold a handgun without a license, why would a dealer even let you touch one (like in some unmentionable states), or let you rent one and shoot it.

I have a situation similar the original question and was pleased to find this thread. Regarding what "carry" means, I found my dictionary to be quite helpful. CARRY 1. To hold or support WHILE MOVING 2. to take from one place to another; TRANSPORT, as in a vehicle 3. to hold and direct the motion of (as a pipe carrying water). There are several other definitions, but virtually all of them state or imply movement, transport or conveyance. The meaning of the word is really quite clear and the prosecutor, judge & lawyer will have nothing to argue about - just bring your dictionary with you.

So, with my LTCH in my pocket, I'll transport the gun and the unlicensed person to the range in my car and I will carry the gun to the firing line. Then the unlicensed person will be free to load and unload (shoot) the gun as much as they want. Since they frown on people just walking around with a gun at the range, TRANSPORT isn't an issue. When we're done, I'll pack up the gun, carry it to my car & drive home, hopefully talking about when we're going to come back & do it again.

 

[rmabrey]

So, with my LTCH in my pocket, I'll transport the gun and the unlicensed person to the range in my car and I will carry the gun to the firing line. Then the unlicensed person will be free to load and unload (shoot) the gun as much as they want. Since they frown on people just walking around with a gun at the range, TRANSPORT isn't an issue. When we're done, I'll pack up the gun, carry it to my car & drive home, hopefully talking about when we're going to come back & do it again.

We have had some differing opinions here on INGO but I think for the most part we agree that this is considered carrying and some DNR officers will ticket for this

ETA: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/the_2nd_amendment/100275-cousin_refuses_to_get_a_ltch-5.html#post1165815

Post #45 in this thread may shed some light