Noob EMP question

[Kase]

When I said ignition cpomponants, I was pretty much referring to the starter....so that answers that question

Let's start with a primer on what an "ignition" is since you seem to have it wrong. The "ignition" in a vehicle is things like the coil, spark plugs, Ignition control module, distributor and many other electronic parts that time and create the spark. With a diesel the "ignition" is created by compression, so no a diesel engine (older versions) doesn't have an ignition. Newer diesel engines are "drive by wire" and controlled entirely from the ECM or computer. I find it unlikely that an EMP would effect the starter, but just in case you could always find one with an air starter. It is similar to an electric starter except it is powered by compressed air instead of electricity, they are most commonly found in VERY cold climates where batteries where unreliable at best. Another solution would be to buy a vehicle from before 1981 that doesn't rely on a computer or electronic ignition and keep a spare set of points in the glove box to be installed after the EMP and you should be fine. Odds are even with a diesel it will have to be at least this old to make any difference anyways.

 

[HighStrung]

I don't know a lot about this EMP stuff, or the likelyhood of it happening.
What I do hear about more all the time is changing Sun phases and solar flare ups. Maybe you guys have talked about this already and I missed it.
I recall reading that a long time ago (1850's?) this happened, and for example it burned up miles of telegraph wire somewhere.
Considering the way we live now, and our infrastructure, that would be devastating.

In many ways the entire senario is virtually the same. The way our electronics would behave in extreem solar storms would be similar to the experienses of an EMP. I guess I consider the reality of an EMP actually going off on the same odds as actually having the solar storm that is bad enough to shut a large portion of the nation down. Though I do think it could happen. Either way I can see the benefits of being prepared for either. Though the earth is generally more powerful than we've even experienced. Look at all the natural disasters throughout history, whats to say that this is any different? I'm not saying I disagree in any way to what you've said, just building off of it in the fact that things do and can happen. I've heard that same story, but don't have any proof either way.

 

[moischmoe]

But my question is, if an EMP hit, wouldn't it fry the starter or any other of the ignition componants?

Not if your vehicle has been properly hardened.

 

[sbcman]

Not if your vehicle has been properly hardened.

Sweet! This would go well with my tin-foil hats!

 

[thefinnnwi]

I heard that EMPs will affect M16s/AR-15s but not Kalashnikov variants!!!!!!

+1. I heard the same thing.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

As one of the other posters suggested, an event which took out the major transformers on the power grid would be more likely to affect us. If you can find a copy in the Library, "The Devil's Playground" by Greg Garrison uses this scenario and describes some of the power grid issues.

Personally, I find it much more likely for us to experience a major power disruption due to solar activity (which seems to be increasing - as is normal in this solar cycle) than due to a deliberate EMP attack - not that I don't think some of our enemies would try it, if they had the means to do so.

 

[jeremy]

I heard that EMPs will affect M16s/AR-15s but not Kalashnikov variants!!!!!!

Huh...

I thought the only one that would survive was my K98...

 

[ATOMonkey]

The radiation from the fallout will be worst than a loss of power.

A magnetic field, that is moving, will induce a current in a wire, (or a wire moving in a mag field, which is how we generate electricity!) IF the wire is oriented properly to the direction of the magnetic field.

The theory behind an EMP, is that a very strong mag field will induce current in the wire and melt the wire, permanently disabling the device. In the case of magnetically stored data, it will corrupt the data or wipe it out.

However, in order to get an EMP that big, you would also need a VERY high yield atomic explosion. So, the explosion and resulting fall out will damage more than the associated EMP.

Also, the length of the wire (as long as it's oriented in the right direction) will determine what the effect of the pulse is. If the pulse travels directly down a power line or railroad track it will accumulate MUCH more electircal charge than the pulse passing over a very short wire. So, like others have said, the AC grid is suceptible, as are railroad tracks.

Your car ECM is housed in a metal grounded box. Essentially, a faraday cage. Airplanes are also protected against lightning strike, so it would be unlikely that an EMP would affect them either.

Unshielded computers may be at risk, from a data storage/corruption stand point. Flashable memory could be vulnerable, but any EFI that requires a "chip" to change the program wouldn't be affected as the "software" is hardwired into the chip.

 

[nate1865]

There are many more probable events to prepare for than an EMP.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

The radiation from the fallout will be worst than a loss of power.

A magnetic field, that is moving, will induce a current in a wire, (or a wire moving in a mag field, which is how we generate electricity!) IF the wire is oriented properly to the direction of the magnetic field.

The theory behind an EMP, is that a very strong mag field will induce current in the wire and melt the wire, permanently disabling the device. In the case of magnetically stored data, it will corrupt the data or wipe it out.

However, in order to get an EMP that big, you would also need a VERY high yield atomic explosion. So, the explosion and resulting fall out will damage more than the associated EMP.

Also, the length of the wire (as long as it's oriented in the right direction) will determine what the effect of the pulse is. If the pulse travels directly down a power line or railroad track it will accumulate MUCH more electircal charge than the pulse passing over a very short wire. So, like others have said, the AC grid is suceptible, as are railroad tracks.

Your car ECM is housed in a metal grounded box. Essentially, a faraday cage. Airplanes are also protected against lightning strike, so it would be unlikely that an EMP would affect them either.

Unshielded computers may be at risk, from a data storage/corruption stand point. Flashable memory could be vulnerable, but any EFI that requires a "chip" to change the program wouldn't be affected as the "software" is hardwired into the chip.

While the ECM in an automobile MAY survive, what about the dozens of unshielded electronic sensors that it relies upon? relays? fusible links......etc...?

 

[Pocketman]

Did the Enola Gay fall from the sky? What's known about EMP is the effect on power grids. Much of the rest is conjecture. Remember Y2K.

 

[SKSnut]

Did the Enola Gay fall from the sky? What's known about EMP is the effect on power grids. Much of the rest is conjecture. Remember Y2K.

the planes were ALL hydraulics in ww2. no electrical system to make it fall out of the sky.

 

[Pocketman]

the planes were ALL hydraulics in ww2. no electrical system to make it fall out of the sky.

Took my post too literally. I don't believe there's any record of the aircraft's comm-nav systems being interrupted.

 

[jeremy]

While the ECM in an automobile MAY survive, what about the dozens of unshielded electronic sensors that it relies upon? relays? fusible links......etc...?

The ECMs will survive along with the Sensors...
Once again I'll throw it out there.
Has your Vehicle ever shut off during a Thunderstorm when there was a close Lighting Strike?!
Or has your car died when driven by a Radio or TV Transmission Tower?!

If you are close enough that your Vehicle will not operate due to the EMP event. You are going to die soon from the Radiation...

Did the Enola Gay fall from the sky? What's known about EMP is the effect on power grids. Much of the rest is conjecture. Remember Y2K.

A lot of the People on here NEED to really read up on Magnetic Fields and Wires...

Even the effects on the Grid depends on the Direction that the Magnetic Pulses Cross the Power lines as to the effects that will be experienced. Most likely what will happen will be the loss of some of the Larger transformer substations, which while bad enough is not as bad as a lot of the Hollywood Myths would have you believe.

the planes were ALL hydraulics in ww2. no electrical system to make it fall out of the sky.

Hmmm...
Yeah those Hydraulic Props were all the rage in the 30's and 40's...
I seem to recall that the Radio systems experienced no problems...

 

[SKSnut]

Took my post too literally. I don't believe there's any record of the aircraft's comm-nav systems being interrupted.

true good point.

 

[ATOMonkey]

While the ECM in an automobile MAY survive, what about the dozens of unshielded electronic sensors that it relies upon? relays? fusible links......etc...?

The case shielding is there to protect the info on the Flashable ROM in the PCM.

Since cars are still mostly made out of metal, they do shield the wires. Most of the wires are also foil wrapped to protect them from EM fields. Try using unshielded wires in your radio and you'll get a funny buzz in the speakers from the EM field the Alternator emitts. Drove me NUTS in my old firebird. I just turned it up load enough that I didn't hear it.

If you get an EMP blast strong enough to blow fuses, you are also going to experience VERY high levels of radiation, be it from the sun or nuke. That level of radiation would probably cook you like a chicken in a microwave.

 

[jsx1043]

Slight thread jack, but as HighStrung mentioned, read the book "One Second After" when you are done with "Lights Out." When you are done with that one, read "Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse."

These books are not technical manuals by any means, but are good primers on getting into prepping and allowing your mind to expand to future possiblities based on the fiction.

 

[BigMatt]

Slight thread jack, but as HighStrung mentioned, read the book "One Second After" when you are done with "Lights Out." When you are done with that one, read "Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse."

These books are not technical manuals by any means, but are good primers on getting into prepping and allowing your mind to expand to future possiblities based on the fiction.

Even though these books are based on EMP, I think we can all agree that a lot of the principles covered in them can be used in a lot of different situations, not just EMP.

If you think about it, one year after most any serious SHTF event, out cars won't work and our power will be out.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Even though these books are based on EMP, I think we can all agree that a lot of the principles covered in them can be used in a lot of different situations, not just EMP.

If you think about it, one year after most any serious SHTF event, out cars won't work and our power will be out.

maybe YOUR power will be out but mine won't. My car will work a year from today, why not a year after an "event"? There are plenty on here that stock gasoline and then there are those that will distill ethanol.....That's why we are called "preppers".

 

[jeremy]

The Problem is Most People do not know how to Think their ways out of problems anymore...

I can walk out to my Garage right now, shoot I could probably walk into anyone's Garage, and within in an hour probably have built a working Generator. It would not be as good as Honda Unit, it would make Power though. But if I am Building something like that in my Garage it is because I need to...

I can have Fuel brewing within about 2 weeks...

People have to re-learn thinking...