Not all cops are gun guys....

[patience0830]

First person to hit the nail on the head.You know it's not a good idea to walk around a public park with an AR pistol, especially in an era where mass shootings are plastered on TV. If I see someone waking around with an AR pistol in an environment that doesn't call for an AR pistol, I'd be weary too. You're just begging for attention and begging to be on Youtube so you can be that "oh, so cool" and "edgy" guy. Makes us look bad.

Makes me tired just thinkin about it.

 

[DRob]

My interest in watching the video died instantly with the idea of any variety of AR carried openly in a park! Guaranteed calls to 911. Guaranteed really nervous police response. As it should be!

 

[Denny347]

Some 2nd Amendment Audit guys were doing this on North District I guess. I heard it was on YouTube but I haven't found it yet.

 

[Disposable Heart]

I mean, I've open carried around my neighborhood walking my son or running:
-Idiots in my area let their dogs run around wild, so that's an issue, especially after a growling pit barking at my 2 year old son while on a walk
-Idiot teenagers that like to follow you in pairs or threes, eyeing you unless you are carrying or openly bracing them for their potential action
-Most of my neighborhood are rentals... that should tell you alot

Am I aiming the gun at people or acting foolishly with it? No
Am I shooting it at anyone? No
Am I threatening people? No
These are questions the dispatcher needs to ask instead of just sending out cops or at minimum, inform the arriving officers that its a man with a gun call, but witness has said they aren't acting in a threatening fashion. "Guns are scary" is NOT probable cause for a stop...

I think I am less prone to be profiled as a maniac when I have my son walking next to me. lol

I've had a cop tell me in Walmart to cover a pistol I was wearing, his desire of becoming cop of the month died off when I asked for a super or if the county prosecutor would like to add yet another loss to his court record.
Another cop, doing yet another super effective smile and wave run through our neighborhood, stopped and asked me for my LTCH while open carrying, then demanded I cover it up. Again, asking for a super and if he understood that mere presence of a gun isn't grounds for probable, he drove off.

I've got a few family friends that are cops and I've worked/met with a lot of others. Most, maybe 80% of them, are anti gun or Fudd. The others... hit or miss. One openly declared that the second amendment didn't apply during disasters. Another said that we shouldn't have ARs, but any pistol is fine, etc.... While I've met a few truly pro second cops, they are HEAVILY outweighed and surprising enough, the Fudd ones were rurals.

The few dispatchers I've ever met... While I can say they have a very stressful job, I cannot find another personality that is more 'stick to job description only' when it comes to their work... So it's no surprise they would freak out and tell responding officers that I'm a menace...

While I am firmly 2nd amendment, the 'auditors' aren't really doing anything wrong. They are acting legally and within their state's guidelines. Are they foolish? Yes. But I am not going to bend to heckler's veto or a cop with a chip on his shoulder either.

 

[ditcherman]

Just gonnna leave this here because I think it's funny -

Just gonna leave this here because I think it's relevant -

 

[ditcherman]

Where are all the hard core INGoers calling out the wishy-washy, Fudd-esque posts in this thread?

I'm a little disappointed. This thread had potential.
Came here for the and only got.

I held off as long as I could.

 

[ditcherman]

At about 6:10 I was sure the officer said "Officer Maxey here", but it turned out it wasn't, kind of disappointed as I've never got to meet him.

I was expecting far worse from the filmer in the video from the comments made. I thought everyone handled themselves well, except when the officers claimed to be educated as well but the one with the pink phone case still was never convinced it was a pistol.

Aren't you glad IN is an open carry state, even if you don't practice it? Can you imagine being the first guy to open carry into walmart or Kroger ever? Aren't you glad you don't have to be that first guy? Even if you're not for open carry, consider that in some states, letting the wind catch your cover garment is brandishing and will cause lights and sirens and endangerment (which could also be called 'good practice') and headaches for you. I am of the mindset that the public needs to get used to being comfortable seeing what is legal to see, because anything else is actively moving us backwards.

 

[CPT Nervous]

I didn’t think a forward vertical hand brace where aloud on pistols??
Did I see one on our 2A auditors pistol, I mean rifle, I mean pistol/rifle thing?

VFG is legal if OAL is >26". Pistol with OAL of >26" and a VFG is classified as a "firearm." It is no longer a rifle or a pistol.

 

[ditcherman]

I didn’t think a forward vertical hand brace where aloud on pistols??
Did I see one on our 2A auditors pistol, I mean rifle, I mean pistol/rifle thing?

No you did not see one, it was on the officers slung rifle that you can see at 2:42

 

[CPT Nervous]

Meh. You deserve what you get when you go to a public park with an AR slung on your back and try to play the "bUt iT's a pIsToL!" game with the police. Their only priority is ending the public disturbance you have gone out of your way to cause, and they are not going to stand there and litigate the NFA with you.

Sorry not sorry, you're a retard if you do this. Every person who sees you behaving like this is going straight to the polls to vote for the most extreme gun-grabber they can find.

I find your response to this rather odd, considering your Marvin Heemeyer avatar.

First of all, why does the mere sight of a firearm cause a "public disturbance?" The man in the video set out to accomplish a couple goals, and normalizing something that many find to be taboo was one of them. Another was seeing if the local police understood the distinction between a rifle and a pistol.

He did not break the law. He did not skirt the law. He did not set out to cause a disturbance. He got a reaction, and the response by police was quite good.

If you support what Marvin John Heemeyer did, and I take it you do, why do not support what this man did?

 

[STFU]

I mean, I've open carried around my neighborhood walking my son or running:
<SNIP>...
While I am firmly 2nd amendment, the 'auditors' aren't really doing anything wrong. They are acting legally and within their state's guidelines. Are they foolish? Yes.

DH, I agree with about 98% of what you are saying. The guy was with-in his rights. Just like you are when you open carry in your neighborhood.
Let me ask, were you open carrying an AR pistol? In a park?

I get it, technically it is considered a pistol. (I own one too.) But the general population does not know it is a pistol. The five or so LEOs that responded did not know.
The LEO response (en mass) should have been expected.

Again, just because YOU CAN, does not mean you should.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Again, just because YOU CAN, does not mean you should.

Exactly. Just because you can carry a handgun, doesn't mean you should.

Personally, I love going to MWAG or someone shooting on their own property calls. I always hope that whoever called is watching when I go up and have a friendly conversation with the "suspect" then leave and allow the person to continue doing whatever it was that upset them so much that they called 911.

Yes, sometimes I approach with my gun drawn, sometimes there are 5+ of us with long guns, but we're going off of what information dispatch provides. These people know that police may show up, and that it will be treated as a high risk, unknown threat type of situation. The guy complied and followed orders, handed over his firearm, and after everything was sorted out, they went on their way.

As long as you're not doing anything that could be interpreted as threatening, such as open carrying rifles while wearing face masks and walking into a bank or police station, or pointing the firearm at someone, a person carrying a slung long gun or "pistol" should not draw any negative attention from anyone.

Texas prohibited the open carry of handguns. So, people started open carrying long guns. It stirred up quite a bit of attention, and eventually Texas allowed the open carrying of handguns.

There is a method behind the madness.

 

[ditcherman]

DH, I agree with about 98% of what you are saying. The guy was with-in his rights. Just like you are when you open carry in your neighborhood.
Let me ask, were you open carrying an AR pistol? In a park?

I get it, technically it is considered a pistol. (I own one too.) But the general population does not know it is a pistol. The five or so LEOs that responded did not know.
The LEO response (en mass) should have been expected.

Again, just because YOU CAN, does not mean you should.

The guy in the video obviously thought he should, after weighing all options and having a pretty good idea of what was going to happen take what he thought was an opportunity to educate and, as was said above so well, normalize.
Those cops definitely came away more educated about what a pistol is. Still not 100%, for example they thought it was up to the manufacturer of the lower to determine if it was a pistol, but getting there.

 

[Tombs]

You can blame the ATF and the NFA for this mess.

If they didn't create such ridiculous regulations and laws, this wouldn't be necessary. But as the video clearly shows, it IS necessary if police who claim to be gun guys don't even know what is and isn't illegal.

As gun owners, we have to know all of these laws by heart to avoid going to the big house, is it really too much to ask to expect police to at least know as much?

 

[phylodog]

As gun owners, we have to know all of these laws by heart to avoid going to the big house, is it really too much to ask to expect police to at least know as much?

It depends, how much are you willing to pay them?

As "gun people" we expect police to know everything there is to know about guns.
People with children who have autism expect police to know everything about autism.
People with diabetes expect police to know everything about diabetes.
People who suffer from bi-polar disorder expect police to know everything about bi-polar disorder.
People with service animals expect police to know everything about service animals.
People dealing with custody issues expect police to know everything about civil custody laws.
People bleeding profusely expect police to know everything about stopping blood loss.
People from every ethnicity and cultural background on the planet expect police to treat them according to their beliefs and customs.
Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc..........

I have yet to hear of a police agency which comes anywhere close to compensating officers for the amount of knowledge they are expected to possess.

Most here would claim to be "gun people" and probably the majority would consider themselves knowledgeable about current firearms laws and regulations. Why did the Mossberg Shockwave and similar firearms just come about in recent years? It wasn't due to any changes in the laws or federal regulations. Why wasn't it thought of sooner? Why didn't someone on INGO think of it?

 

[Floivanus]

Exactly. Just because you can carry a handgun, doesn't mean you should.

Personally, I love going to MWAG or someone shooting on their own property calls. I always hope that whoever called is watching when I go up and have a friendly conversation with the "suspect" then leave and allow the person to continue doing whatever it was that upset them so much that they called 911.

Yes, sometimes I approach with my gun drawn, sometimes there are 5+ of us with long guns, but we're going off of what information dispatch provides. These people know that police may show up, and that it will be treated as a high risk, unknown threat type of situation. The guy complied and followed orders, handed over his firearm, and after everything was sorted out, they went on their way.

As long as you're not doing anything that could be interpreted as threatening, such as open carrying rifles while wearing face masks and walking into a bank or police station, or pointing the firearm at someone, a person carrying a slung long gun or "pistol" should not draw any negative attention from anyone.

Texas prohibited the open carry of handguns. So, people started open carrying long guns. It stirred up quite a bit of attention, and eventually Texas allowed the open carrying of handguns.

There is a method behind the madness.

Exactly, apparently many don’t remember the fervor and push to BAN handguns that was prevalent in the 70s, if it wasn’t for people pushing back and swaying public opinion we would be far worse than we are now.

 

[Gabriel]

It depends, how much are you willing to pay them?

As "gun people" we expect police to know everything there is to know about guns.
People with children who have autism expect police to know everything about autism.
People with diabetes expect police to know everything about diabetes.
People who suffer from bi-polar disorder expect police to know everything about bi-polar disorder.
People with service animals expect police to know everything about service animals.
People dealing with custody issues expect police to know everything about civil custody laws.
People bleeding profusely expect police to know everything about stopping blood loss.
People from every ethnicity and cultural background on the planet expect police to treat them according to their beliefs and customs.
Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc..........

I have yet to hear of a police agency which comes anywhere close to compensating officers for the amount of knowledge they are expected to possess.

Most here would claim to be "gun people" and probably the majority would consider themselves knowledgeable about current firearms laws and regulations. Why did the Mossberg Shockwave and similar firearms just come about in recent years? It wasn't due to any changes in the laws or federal regulations. Why wasn't it thought of sooner? Why didn't someone on INGO think of it?

I heart you right now.

 

[actaeon277]

Not all "gun guys" are gun guys.

 

[jamil]

Second Amendment Audit? Is that like a real thing?

C'mon. It's hard enough fighting off the lies of the anti-gun zealots. These kinds of idiots aren't doing us or the 2A any favors.

 

[JAL]

Second Amendment Audit? Is that like a real thing?

C'mon. It's hard enough fighting off the lies of the anti-gun zealots. These kinds of idiots aren't doing us or the 2A any favors.

This mirrors much of my thoughts on it.

An "in your face militancy" armed with an AR-15 "pistol" that looks like a rifle, calling it a "2nd Amendment Audit" with behavior just begging for MWAG 911 calls does a lot of excellent PR toward convincing those who wouldn't normally think about it that gun owners are Looney Tunes mentally imbalanced nut cases.

Very true that not all cops are "gun guys" - their issue pistol is merely a tool along with the cruiser ready shotgun or AR-15 in the cruiser - and they only go to the range when it's required once a year - and couldn't care less about guns otherwise. They wouldn't know how to safely uncock or unload a single-action revolver with a loading gate if their life depended on it. It's the same with the US Army. Hundreds of thousands aren't "gun guys" as that rifle - now carbine - all with the ammo for it was yet one more piece of dead weight to schlep around and keep track of under threat of fate worse than death with the rest of their battle rattle while they did their real job, which didn't involve using any small arms.