Not another Gun Safe Thread, but I need opinions...and Help

[Cemetery-man]

Don't know how close you are to Plymouth but you might want to give Dan Bukowski a call at DB Safes & Vaults, Inc. 574-993-7234. I don't think he carries Liberty safes but he does have Champion safes. His prices are good and he delivers and sets up and he is a locksmith also.

 

[whipfinish]

Johnson Safe is the only way to go. Ask him about the upgrade buyback plan. Why not save some additional $$ and buy locally from Jeff who also sponsors the forum versus buying from china?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Try checking on Amazon.com. I got my Stackon safe for $100 cheaper and they delivered it inside my door for free

 

[edsinger]

Johnson Safe is the only way to go. Ask him about the upgrade buyback plan. Why not save some additional $$ and buy locally from Jeff who also sponsors the forum versus buying from china?

I understand, I do NOT want a Chinese safe but this journey has been long. There are many things that I have discovered about the 'safe' business. It is not as you see nor believe or are told.

Johnson safe - great product, 6 week lead time, and hard for me to 'see' the product. I have talked with him. With shipping etc, I would sacrifice 6" of width to buy one vs other AMERICAN made products.

Don's Liberty Safe - This guy has been top notch in talking with me and we are discussing things. I am not decided, but this guy has a hands up so far.

Sturdy Safe - Great product, the owner is nice and knows his safes. In discussions with them, he does not bad mouth others unless he knows something. He in fact looked at Johnson safe and said that I should check it out for sure. Sturdy's shipping cost might price him out but he gave me some questions and research items to do with Johnson Safe and others. I have done that investigation and at this point, unless I can go see them at the INDY 1500, I will probably pass.

Sportsman Steel Safes in California. Hmm this has been the most interesting journey. The fellow I am talking with knows the industry for sure. I told him that I am leaning towards a FATBOY from Liberty. His reaction is that Liberty makes good safes. He thinks his is better, but that Liberty makes a very good product. This is good because he admits this. We went into a long discussion about manufacturing these things and that there is no way that a FATBOY can be made in America due to price. (Not the Gander Mountain price even on sale, GM sucks). He told me that the flat roll steel was Chinese because it was 60.5" wide. So I confronted him and told him that I KNOW that a US steel mill can produce 82" wide steel that is 1/4" thick. He seemed surprised and was glad to know the information. He admitted he did not know, but he LEARNED something. Anyhow, he wants me to get the safe that I want to buy, a hard dollar quote and he will do his best to beat it(Including Shipping!). He said he might not, that the prices I have been quoted are hard to beat. I have told them that he HAS to beat to get my money and he understood.

This has become a journey, a good one as I am learning.

Also, I am working on some things for INGO. Nothing in my pocket, but after what I have been through this week, whomever I buy this safe from will know what INGO is and maybe will split a Sponsor cost with me. This would be great advertising for the winner.


I even called Ft. Knox today and talked with someone. My impressions where a class act. Flat out told me why I really could not get one of the products they offer (gave me information to see if I could get a used one). Anyhow, very knowledgeable and such but admitted there was not much they could do to give me a safe in the size I wanted around my price range. If I had the money, I would be looking a bit more at a Ft. Knox. He asked me just how much $$$ I was trying to protect per se. He was shocked to know that the Safe and price I am looking at cost more than what I am protecting. I want to buy ONE safe, and I want it to last. I will add the value later.


I have a feeling that this will be one of those threads that people looking to buy a safe will google and come up with...I hope to almost make this a log of my journey to buy a safe.

 

[WeAreNotAlone]

edsinger,

500, 700 lbs?

Consider checking with companies that deal in (used) REAL SAFES.
(NEW would be way out of your price range.)

Keep a eye out in the classifieds for stores that are CLOSING.
Check with your local pawn shops (not for pawned safes) but Ask them if they are considering upgrading. (long shot)

If it was me, even if you buy a consumer grade "Gun-Safe" I'd go to a couple of "Safe Stores" and get some info (brochures) on "real" safes, then come home and Google around.
(Search for info on the various ratings, different construction methods used to attain each type of rating. This will help you filter out the good from the bad safe offerings you may run across.)

While there ask if they have a any "used" safes. (They usually do)


Different types of safes /ratings: Ratings can be combined.
Jewelry safes (Jewelery stores- these are most of the time very NICE and big enough for long arms)
FireSafes
Burglary
etc.

Example found via driving around to the back of a place dealing in safes /vaults.

$1,200

(2) ATM machines that are like 3,700lbs apiece bolted back to back for a total of 7,400 lbs. Each is like 66x48x36

Each is certified at $250,000+ cash IIRC.

The problem with such is when it comes moving time.

Tip: HIDE YOUR SAFE
Tip: Don't have the safe in a area that has burglary tools nearby (Garage)
Tip: Use a Golden Rod to take the moisture out. Room with A/C heat is plus. This said you do not want that room to experience rapid temp swings /have vent directed directly at safe.
Tip: Change the combo from factory default.
Tip: Do not "Spin" the dial "rapidly"
Tip: Specify you want a (I forgot the name) the ability to set a combo which is used if you are FORCED to OPEN the safe in which it transmits a Silent Alarm....
Tip: Have a way to "dial-out" of the safe /unlock the door from inside if you are locked inside.
Tip: Remove wheels if unit has wheels
Tip: Make sure the company moving the safe is licensed and bonded. If possible get a company that deals in safes to move it.
Tip: If you have hidden your safe well, consider a much smaller "junk" safe that is "transportable", store junk firearms with the firing pin milled down...


.

 

[7.62shooter2]

I've started looking into a gun safe recently also. I am looking hard at Browning safes. Here is a video that shows some of their features.

Video Player -- Browning

Dave

 

[edsinger]

I've started looking into a gun safe recently also. I am looking hard at Browning safes. Here is a video that shows some of their features.

Video Player -- Browning

Dave

They are good safes, I like the Medallion for sure. Some of the Bodies are manufactured in Mexico, so you need to check that if trying to buy American. I know some are made in Utah, you just have to check it out.

Their locking mechanism is pretty dam good.

I don't know if you have ran across this but it is worth the look,


Gun Safe Buyers' Guide
Gun Safe Buyers' Guide

 

[edsinger]

edsinger,

Example found via driving around to the back of a place dealing in safes /vaults.

$1,200

(2) ATM machines that are like 3,700lbs apiece bolted back to back for a total of 7,400 lbs. Each is like 66x48x36

Each is certified at $250,000+ cash IIRC.

The problem with such is when it comes moving time.

.

Never thought of that, an ATM.....That would be a MONSTER.

 

[edsinger]

Well Don answered my questions. He is a good guy and a real pleasure to do business with.

http://www.donslibertysafe.com/

I bought a safe from him today. He was a pleasure to deal with and worked with me on my particular issues. I will soon have the safe I wanted and I found a way to NOT buy it from Gander Mountain. See Gander Mountain has the Fatboy Jr. for $1099 at this time. That is a good price but, they could do better. See this link I found for out West.

http://www.coastalfarm.com/coastal_farm_big_r_media.cfm?page=front


Makes you wonder huh? Now you know why their ammo is so damn much!


Anyhow, I bought this:

It was a much better experience than Gander Mountain would be. And most importantly, it was cheaper, even much better than Gander Mountains SALE price. Don still made money, I bought an American Made safe, I bought it from an Indiana business. All in all, A good journey.





: Tried to tell him of INGO, he is very active in the NRA but was not real familar with INGO. If you call him, mention it and if enough of us talk to him about it he might become a sponser AND member!

 

[7.62shooter2]

Well Don answered my questions. He is a good guy and a real pleasure to do business with.

http://www.donslibertysafe.com/

I bought a safe from him today. He was a pleasure to deal with and worked with me on my particular issues. I will soon have the safe I wanted and I found a way to NOT buy it from Gander Mountain.

Congrats on your new safe!! It looks like there is a lot of margin in gun safes based on your comments and Don's list prices.

 

[7.62shooter2]

They are good safes, I like the Medallion for sure. Some of the Bodies are manufactured in Mexico, so you need to check that if trying to buy American. I know some are made in Utah, you just have to check it out.

Their locking mechanism is pretty dam good.

I don't know if you have ran across this but it is worth the look,


Gun Safe Buyers' Guide
Gun Safe Buyers' Guide

Thanks for the link to the Gun Safe Buyer's Guide! There is a lot of good information there. I definetly want to look into their recommendation on Bore Stores. Their comments about mechanical vs digital lock rings true. I have a pistol vault that the digital lock failed within 2 years. Thanks again.

 

[edsinger]

Congrats on your new safe!! It looks like there is a lot of margin in gun safes based on your comments and Don's list prices.

Yeah what is listed on the website is "Liberty" prices. I got mine at the price I did because it was a 2009 model, and he has a bunch of 2010's coming in. I would pretty much guarantee he will beat Gander Mountain on his worse day. As for shopping around, I can say that I got a good deal, make no mistakes, he still made money and I am glad he did. He is fair and made it a pleasurable experience.

If you are in the market for a liberty gun safe, you should at least call him.

He sells a lot of them, there must be a reason.

 

[WeAreNotAlone]

Just a thought or two:

For those of you that have "hunter" friends that may have glass gun cabinets as in the days of ole.... Or may have their firearms in the open - All those people need a safe ASAP. We don't want to give the Anti-gunners any ammo to use against the 2nd Amendment, if you know what I mean.

****
You think your Deer Hunting rifles, Shotguns, Target rifle are safe from the Anti-Gunners? In 1986 the Hughes amendment banned a whole class of weapons - in which since 1934 only (1) registered NFA was used in a crime (The crime committed by a off-duty Police Officer BTW!).

That's (1) weapon out of several hundred thousand that's ever been used in a crime since 1934... 1934-1986=52 years. If you think your hunting and target rifles are safe, they aren't. The Anti-Gunners will call your hunting/target rifle a "SNIPER RIFLE", and they will ban it as the 1986 Hughes amendment has given the "Green Light" /layed the foundation for future gun restrictions that will result in the end of the 2nd Amendment.

Why do I mention the above? In the USA the largest group is "hunters". The Anti-Gunners know that they can't ban "hunting rifles" outright first thing so they got the 1986 Hughes amendment passed banning Class III stuff. Now that they can "ban" something outright, it's a simple matter to use the "Divide and Conquer Technique". They told hunters using rifles and shotguns in England that they were ONLY after handguns, after they eliminated handguns, the Anti-gunners went after the other groups.

To keep 2nd Amendment alive the below is a must read, note the PATTERN:

A Brief History of British Gun Control, (or, How to Disarm the Law Abiding Populace by Stealth), by P.A. Luty


.

 

[billet-boy]

nice buy, and american! i saw the johnson safes at the last 1500, nice and nice guy too. looked wellmade, just pricey for me?

 

[edsinger]

nice buy, and american! i saw the johnson safes at the last 1500, nice and nice guy too. looked wellmade, just pricey for me?

Yeah, I tell you what, my safe will be here tommorrow and I will give a full report.

At this time, so far, Don is a CLASS act.. more details to follow.

 

[edsinger]

***Its Here***

Well I got my safe this morning just as I was told I would, about 1.5 hrs to get in and set up. Its just what I imagined and its about full already! Well at least half anyway. I will wait a bit to add my guns as it was cold this morning and I need to let it warm up.

All in all, it was a very pleasurable buying experience and I would recommend that anyone in the market for an American made safe, don't hesitate to give Don a call. He is a class act and a pleasure to deal with. I got a Goldenrod for free, he doesn't let a safe go out without one.

As for the Liberty Fatboy, it seems to be built very well, its heavy as heck so it is not easy to move for me or for someone up to no good. It now weighs about 1500 lbs. It is sitting on a slab, so its all good.

He has more coming in maybe as early as late March or early April. Just so you know, I worked a deal on delivery so my total cost installed was a few hundred dollars LESS than if I would have purchased it at Gander Mountain on sale without delivery included. I would say that I saved about $500.

Don says he will beat GM and I am a witness to it. I know he has a Fatboy Jr. coming in and he told me he would beat GM's sale price of $1099. As for the Fatboy, his price was significantly less than GM's sale price of $1899. He has quite a few coming in on the truck. I think his price is $1499 but you will have to ask him.


A BIG +1 to Don's Liberty Safe

 

[antdog/zook]

glad to hear the good review and that you are pleased with safe, i will be contacting him soon! thanks again for follow-up report.

 

[edsinger]

glad to hear the good review and that you are pleased with safe, i will be contacting him soon! thanks again for follow-up report.

I really think that if one is in the Market for a safe, it would be worth giving this man a call. You don't have to buy one, but you at least would know what the REAL prices for a Liberty "made in the USA" safe costs.

 

[cndguy]

The Zanotti Take-Down Safe
The Zanotti Take-Down Safe AccurateShooter.com Bulletin

I got mine a couple of weeks ago, and here is a small review that I just wrote.

Zanotti ZA-I safe review

Ordering

I ordered my safe in mid-November 2009, and finally got it in the beginning of June, a month ahead of promissed delivery date. The owners, Mark & Dave, have both been extremely helpful (above my every expectation!), straightforward from the very start, and always available on the phone. The cost was around 1330 (with lining and goldenrod dehumidifier) + around 175 shipping to the nearest terminal. If you can pick it up yourself in Waterloo, Iowa, you can eliminate this shipping expense.

Transportation

ZA-I safe that I ordered came in three boxes to the local carrier that I was able to fit in my sedan car with folded seats, so these are not huge boxes by any means. The heaviest box contains the door and the back panel, and is around 4 inches thick, 5-foot long and 2-feet wide, the second box contains two sides, and the lightest and smallest square box contains the top and the bottom. I recommend having someone else to help you with loading/unloading them, though one strong guy could handle these with a good dolly.


Security

According to my measurements (very precise caliper used), The top, bottom and the door metal is 0.18 inch thick (or 7-gauge steel), and the sides and the back are 0.12 inch (or 11-gauge steel). This is a bit less than a stated 1/8 and 3/16, but close enough nevertheless.

You will find some posts on the internet about how one can go through a 10-gauge steel with a fire axe, however after seeing and feeling this 11-gauge (0.12) steel, I just don't believe that. One guy in a forum I follow wrote about trying to do just that with a 12-gauge steel plate, and after trying for a long time, he finally gave up. Maybe, just maybe, a very, very strong guy can do it when a safe side is big enough, and in a perfect position (on the ground), but when bolted down (and when that side is perpendicular to the ground) I would bet against it with no hesitation. Top, bottom and the door, being 7-gauge, are out of question really for any brute-force attack.

Assembly

I was able to do everything myself, including installing the door. Note that this is ZA-I, the smallest Zanotti safe, so if you ordered ZA-II or larger safe - get some help, as every piece will be heavier, and especially the door.

The manual says you will need 20 minutes to assemble it. Forget about that. Maybe if you already have experience doing it. I needed 2-3 hours, mostly because I had a problem inserting an L-pin into one of the hinges. I ended up using a sand paper to smooth out the top of one of the pins, and it finally went through. My advice is that you should not hesitate to use a sand paper to make the pins go in smoother. If you use it just for the top of the pins, this will have no effect on how strong the bond will be, but will make it much easier to insert them. I also used some white grease for all the pins, this is pretty much a necessity. Some difficulty inserting these pins is actually expected, as they are made to very tight tolerances. The sturdiness of the final result makes it worthwhile.

The manual says you should use a hammer. Fortunately I previously read in one other review that rubber mallet is a better choice, and it sure is. If you use a regular hammer, I guarantee you that somewhere in the process you will cause some damage to the paint. Use some ear protection once you start inserting the pins, hammering them even with a rubber mallet will cause some noise, and remember that while doing that you will be in the safe with all the pieces in place except for the door. Not healthy for your ears.

Assembled safe

...is truly beautiful (I didn't see an attachment option in this forum, otherwise I would attach a few photos). Once all the pins are in, I can confirm it is as sturdy as a one-piece safe. My safe is black with silver, and it looks great. The combination lock is also silver, and while I am not an expert, it looks like a very good quality one. Once locked, five steel bars hold the door, if someone forcefully removed the hinges, this door would still be in place. The locking mechanism itself is protected by a very thick metal plate
(this is underneath already thick 7-gauge door), that I did not even measure. It's certainly thicker than 7-gauge steel. The sides, top and bottom have re-inforced edges where they come into contact with the door / door bolts.

Fire protection

There is nothing really in the safe that would provide fire protection, except the thick steel itself. I chose the carpeting option, but this is to
protect the guns from being kicked into the safe sides, and provides no protection against fire. If your objective is protecting your guns from fire,
you should probably look elsewhere, as Zanotti has no fire-lining whatsoever.

Overall recommendation

...is - get one. Unless if you need fire protection, I highly recommend them. If you just walk in into Bass Pro or any other gun store, all of the safes I have seen (even the very, very heavy ones) are made of 12-gauge
steel. I don't think they are as safe as Zanotti, and they are certainly not as convenient. Assembled ZA-I is 350-400 lb, and carrying it into your
home on one piece, and especially up/down the stairs would be no fun at all. With Zanotti, you have no such problem, but burglars still do, even if they manage to pry it of the ground (which they shouldn't if you do it right with concrete anchor bolts).

One problem that remains is - long wait time. In my case, it was around 6 months, but I hear that this has been increased to even longer time now. With such a backlog, I am not sure why they don't increase capacities and expand their business... Zanotti Armor must be losing a lot of business of customers who can't wait that long.

 

[edsinger]

Thanks for the review, sounds like it was as you thought. Cool!