Nov 28,29 2009 - Riley Appleseed AAR

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  • Lars

    Rifleman
    Mar 6, 2008
    4,342
    38
    Cedar Creek, TX
    Saturday November 28th, 2009, was a chilly morning: about forty degrees or so in Riley, Indiana. I arrived at the range at about 8:15 am, not fully knowing what to expect. What I did know is that I arrived as a cook. I fully expected to learn about the first two or three days of the American Revolution and how to correctly shoot a rifle.

    Prior to this day I had gone to the range and shot a rifle, any rifle, perhaps on four or maybe five occasions. I knew I didn't know how to shoot a rifle because at 25 feet, I shot more accurately with my 9mm Glock Pistol than I did with the 5.45x39mm AK-74. I had less than 1500 rounds down range total through any firearm with a barrel longer than 5". I was certainly a cook.

    Registration for this Appleseed event was pretty simple for me. The Shoot Boss for the weekend invited me as his guest, so I just had to show up and sign my life away in the form of a liability waver. When I arrived there were already several people with red hats on that indicated they were Instructors for the shoot. I also recognized the guy in the green "Shoot Boss" hat as the guy who invited me to come.

    After everyone arrived and was checked in we discussed a little bit about what Appleseed is. Or rather I should say they started with a rather long list of things Appleseed is not. If any of the list of things Appleseed is not is of particular interest to you, "That's fine, just don't talk about it today, nor tomorrow." was the instruction given. What Appleseed is is a FANTASTIC organization of volunteers working to teach Americans about the great history of our country in its earliest days and to teach Americans some of the basic skills that not fifty years ago all Americans sill possessed. Through this education they hope to help us wake up and take action: help teach other Americans and get involved in the local, state, or federal level. They see the greatest threat to our nation as being nothing more sinister than the sofa in your living room. Through inaction we stand to lose the things our forefathers bled starting in April 1775.

    I said earlier that when I arrived I knew only that I would arrive a cook. I only knew that because I had spent a little bit of time on the Appleseed website before coming to the shoot. The following quote is from the front page of The Appleseed Project "In short, a rifleman is an armed American, trained in the tradition of American Liberty. It's a man who has learned to shoot a rifle accurately — accurate enough to score 'expert' on the Army Qualification Course. Until you can do that, you're considered a 'Cook,' unprepared and unqualified to carry a rifle on the firing line of freedom." I knew coming in I wasn't qualified to carry a rifle. That's the primary reason I decided to attend this event. I want to learn the skills my forefathers knew.

    When we got done with the safety briefing we walked down to the range and set up our shooting mats, laid out our rifles, and pasted up our first target: a "red coat target," we were told. We would shoot this as a baseline with no instruction and then at the end of the day we would shoot it again to help gauge our improvement.

    I don't want to give away the whole training, but I can say that I learned more about the mechanics of accurate rifle shooting than I previously thought existed. I learned how to use a sling as an aid to accurate shooting. I learned how to get into the Prone, Sitting, and Standing positions and how to use them to shoot more accurately. I also learned how to zero a rifle's scope in 10 rounds or under using, GASP, math!

    By the end of the first day I was still a Cook. I had shot a 200 and a 202 as my best AQTs. To score rifleman a score of 210 must be achieved. In all, I loved my first day on the range with this group of gentlemen. I was told Advil was to be my best friend, and they didn't lie. It didn't help that around 15:30 I got hit with a migraine. By 17:30 it was a rip-roaring migraine.

    As a group, most of us went to a small Mexican restaurant after the shoot and had dinner. When I left I hit Wal-Mart for some Advil and snacks for the following day. When I got back to my Hotel room I took some of the Advil, got a hot shower, and went to bed.

    Sunday was far less instruction, more history, and a LOT more AQTs. My first two AQTs I either disqualified myself by not being able to count or was disqualified because someone else shot my target for me putting 20 holes in a target that should have 10. In any case I learned that one of my problems is my eyes. I have a difficult time while in prone seeing the blade of the front sight and the target down range through the very top edge of my glasses. I made an equipment change after lunch to a rifle with a scope on it. With help from the shoot boss we got it zeroed in record time. My very next AQT felt fantastic.

    A couple hours later I found out it felt even more fantastic than I thought. I had scored a 211 and earned the Rifleman's patch! This really made the aches, pains, and cold weather worth it. The second AQT after lunch included rain. I'll tell you going to sitting or prone on your now completely drenched shooting mat is far from comfortable, however our forefathers would have done it for our country, and I felt it was my duty to do it as well (not to mention if I needed to shoot in the rain in the future, it is better to learn to do it when it doesn't count). I shot two rounds of AQTs in the rain scoring a 200 and a 186. The 186 was after the hump in the afternoon and shot with a very wet reticle on the scope.

    To the fine folks who put on this Appleseed, I'd like to extend a HUGE thank you. To the shooters I met Saturday and Sunday, it was fantastic to meet you. I look forward to the next time our paths cross, hopefully at another Appleseed! To Techres and Mudcat, I'd like to extend an extra special thank you. First: Techres for inviting me to come, loaning me your rifle, ammunition, sling, and a lot of your time and experience. To Mudcat: for loaning me the rifle with the scope, because if I don't bring it up first, I'm sure he will! :)

    Thanks everyone for helping me put down my cooking utensils and pick up that rifle.

    Lars
    de W9ZEB
     
    Last edited:

    techres

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Industry Partner
    Mar 14, 2008
    6,479
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    Lars, you did great! Few ever come out and do what you did on the first weekend. It is a testament to you calm, learning attitude. I will say more later, and I will add many pictures and words to this AAR, but I have to sift through a thousand pictures and also get some sleep as I am also bone tired.

    Congrats to all our students - they all did great, as well as to our 5 new riflemen & riflewomen!

    Pics and stories to come. Just one for now:

    4146191762_132fa76255.jpg


    Your eyes may have been giving you trouble, but your ears did not. :yesway:
     

    Lars

    Rifleman
    Mar 6, 2008
    4,342
    38
    Cedar Creek, TX
    For anyone who doubts whether or not this Appleseed training works. Below is my target from Day 1. The circled shots were fired before any instruction at all.

    appleseed-before.jpg


    The uncircled shots were from the end of day 1, right in the middle of that monster migraine.


    Next the photo from the end of day 2, shooting from a SOAKED shooting mat, with a wet scope. (which explains that bottom target..... I couldn't see it and guessed.... Wrong)

    appleseed-after.jpg
     

    yellowhousejake

    Sharpshooter
    Industry Partner
    May 25, 2009
    595
    18
    Greenfield
    Outstanding targets!!

    Instructor hats off to Lars for setting the ego aside and taking the instruction. You were the kind of student we all enjoy having on the line, "receptive". It paid off and now you have the skills. Practice them and you will only get better.

    I had a big grin on my face as I changed the line under my forum name this morning. I would love to change it to "INGO members can outshoot arfcom members with a rifle". We just need to forge a bunch more INGO riflemen on the anvil of Appleseed.

    2010 is coming and we will have twice as many Appleseeds as we did this year, who would rather shoot a rifle than type on a keyboard?

    YHJ
     

    techres

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Industry Partner
    Mar 14, 2008
    6,479
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    Saturday​

    I rolled into Riley just as the sun was coming up. There was a line of vehicles waiting for me as the other trainers and students had beat me to the range. Hawkhavn and crew immediately set to getting the line going while others got registration under way.

    Soon we were doing our introductions and safety briefing before getting our gear and rifles down to the line.

    We quickly moved into the course of instruction, including positions and sling use:

    4146561401_1ec5e2d503.jpg


    Over and over we worked on the five square targets tightening groups through proper sling use, 6 steps of firing the shot, NPOA and body positioning. And finally, the students got a chance to learn IMC and finally get to make sight adjustments:

    4146566045_0d4f7d553b.jpg


    While a nippy day at first, it warmed up on us and the sun became an issue glinting off of front sight posts. For one AR shooter we rigged up a sight hood out of duct tape and cardboard from a federal .22lr box.

    4147323432_2b9171e45e.jpg



    After some much needed history and lunch, we were ready to get back to business. First off was Ball & Dummy. Students took on the role of teachers in turn looking for the mistakes that ruin shooting. Here are two students working the drill under the careful instruction of Orange hat .5:

    4147318536_b4baccc912.jpg



    All day long the students worked on what they had learned and built up the next block in their tower of learning. Each new block was following with actual practice of that part plus all that had come before:

    4146558169_4ef00c45db.jpg


    4146574489_66b5c5d5eb.jpg


    4146576413_d8e5999dfa.jpg




    Soon we were racing against the setting sun and had to push alot of training into a shorter day. The students held in tight and did great when we finally got them into standing and sitting positions:

    4146575397_930b7e379c.jpg


    By the end of the day, with instructors grading and students shooting, we were able to just squeeze in 3 AQT's and the final read coat. Quickly we pulled our rifles and equipment off the line and moved back into the warm clubhouse.

    By then the AQT's had been scored and we had two Riflemen:

    4146571675_7ddf096ae5.jpg


    4146561051_015e895b98.jpg


    Congrats to both shooters! But an especially congrats to the shooter from Illinois who came over and scored at this, his second Appleseed. That is impressive, I know it took me more shoots than that!

    It was now dark and time to get dinner, rest, and some advil for those aching muscles.


    Night of the HAM's​

    Usually we have a campfire and talk fun during it. After a superb dinner at the Mexican restaurant, we returned to the range and, since there was a critical mass of HAM radio operators on hand, there was suddenly a HAM fest:

    4146564679_1e8e71e9ca.jpg



    Before you knew it, a portable tower was up:

    4146560283_d3f8b8c20f.jpg



    And we were online with the world without any need for being online:

    4146574053_03edbf2577.jpg



    You never know what you will learn on a Saturday night at an Appleseed. That holds true for even for me as a green hat. I wish I had not been so completely wiped as HootersBilly took me through all sorts of ham information and use. He was very, very patient with my droopy eyes. I had been up since 5 am and so had he so he understood.


    Sunday​


    Sunday was a cold and rainy day with shooters working prone in puddles and shooters circling up under the one canopy.

    4146562527_467bcbdb0c.jpg


    Even the shoot boss got to see how waterproof the new/beta INGO fleece is:

    4145653916_49c878d299.jpg


    The day was a hammering of AQT's. After a Red Coat and a five square to get zero'ed, we were back in the game.

    4146559023_2291782ddd.jpg



    On Sunday we had NEOCON and his family come up to shoot. Normally most of his family is wearing orange hats and is teaching, but on this day they were working on their own skills while those who had not gotten their patches tried again.

    PT6 and .5 also joined the line to work on their personal skills as well. .5 in particular was working on getting over the hump and completing her Rifleman patch:

    4147330550_d55920b671.jpg



    After lunch, it was back to Ball & Dummy. Here Bill Of Rights is keeping an eye on students who now know the drill and are doing great on their own:

    4147321264_c8ceac14c0.jpg


    And WRWIII as well:

    4146572063_0b2bfc634e.jpg


    Our number of instructors to students was very high and at one point we were near 1:1 :

    4146559803_0e58179102.jpg



    And we even put some istructors on the mat to get them some trigger time. (We are all willing to show and practice right along side students):

    4147316338_4daa4eaeb5.jpg



    Here is .5 with her patented sitting position that only the young and limber can do!

    4146563447_22d177d08d_o.jpg



    We hammered AQT after AQT's and before long we had another Rifleman (INGO's own Lars!):

    4146562117_70a868026f.jpg


    Now I want to congratulate Lars for working through mechanical failures, eye problems, and a completely wet front half of his body all in order to do something that few get to claim - scoring Rifleman the first time out. My hat is off to you sir!

    But that was not all, had more and kept going through the heavy rain to find another. This riflewoman has been working on this score for some time in the midst of her work as an IIT herself. But she has made it - our own .5 with a 210. Her personal trainer and dad are there with her:

    4147317424_e7daf76fd6.jpg



    I need to mention that even when it is raining, we do the tradition of pouring water on anyone who scores 210 exactly when they make it for the first time.

    Then, just before the day ended, and in the midst of the storm, we had one more riflewoman. With her husband presenting and her son applying, she got also got a 210 and her husband (NEOCON) and son were there to give her all 210 out of her 210:

    4146572499_1b7e011598.jpg


    4146785627_63e84531ec.jpg


    And that water was far colder than the water falling from the sky.

    With the last AQT and Read coat, the end of the day was upon us. We quickly tore down the line and got all our soaking equipment back to the clubhouse and there we finished out our day.

    As a last, surprise promotion, NEOCON got his much earned green hat!

    4147332946_b74d294841_b.jpg



    Final Comments​


    This was a great shoot. It was a small but tight group that worked hard and had much to be proud of. From those that earned patches, to those that hammered through two days of tough training, to those that worked through repeated mechanical issues, from all of you all I got was good listening, hard work, and many smiles.

    The people who come out any Appleseed are good and fine folk. Those that come out to a cold, wet Appleseed in November are not only fine, they are hearty and dedicated.

    It was my honor to instruct each and every one of you.

    4147328992_2d1aec3276.jpg



    Techres
     

    Clay

    Grandmaster
    Aug 28, 2008
    9,648
    48
    Vigo Co
    Awesome! Excellent AARs! Sounds like you guys had a great time, which is as it should be! I only wish I could have been there along side of you, but it was not to be.... this time! I WILL see you all again in the future!
     

    NEOCON

    Sharpshooter
    Mar 21, 2008
    469
    16
    Warrick county
    Great AAR Lars and Techres with his excellent picture AAR. I decided to go up and shoot on sunday and take my mother and wife along for another attempt at the elusive 210. My son decided to come along and shoot too. Usually me, him and my daughter are instructors and it sure was nice to be able to get some trigger time in. I had finished a recent AR mid length build and had yet to shoot a full AQT with it. After shooting a .22 conversion at the first redcoat and quickly deciding that it was not going to be 4 moa accurate I went back to the .223 bolt and mags. I got a 227 first AQT while putting my rusty Appleseed skills to work. Then for a little challenge I shot an entire AQT weak side. It was awkward for sure but a challenge none the less I had a 199 weak side.
    I then figured I would let a few of the other instructors get some trigger time in too. I ended up calling the line the rest of the afternoon. I was really hoping that my wife and mother both would shoot that 210 with the excellent instruction that the instructor to student ratio offered. I was so excited to hear my wife finally got it. She has shot at 4 shoots total with her first right at a year ago. We also did a family mini last month to get them ready and spend a day at the range as a family. I passed on pouring the water over her head though, and let the my son do that task. She was a good sport as usual though and already wet.
    Oh yes and 4 Riflemen in this house now! Just a little bit of pride there. Cannot wait for my mother to get the Rifleman patch as well and she will, she assures me.

    I didn't get to instruct much this weekend, but with Techres and all the IN. instructors I am sure they got great instruction. Techres always runs a great laid back shoot where the learning never stops. It was great to meet a few new friends and see some old ones. Cannot wait until the spring Appleseeds start again. If you haven't been to an Appleseed shoot go! What are you waiting on?

    Mudcat











    Oh and did I mention that Larrs was shooting my rifle when he shot that 211.:D
     

    lovemywoods

    Geek in Paradise!
    Site Supporter
    Mar 26, 2008
    3,026
    0
    Brown County
    We hammered AQT after AQT's and before long we had another Rifleman (INGO's own Lars!):

    4146562117_70a868026f.jpg




    As a last, surprise promotion, NEOCON got his much earned green hat!

    4147332946_b74d294841_b.jpg


    Techres

    Congratulations to Lars and Neocon!! :rockwoot::ingo::yesway::yesway::yesway:

    Both accomplishments took much work and dedication.
     

    worksalot

    Plinker
    Nov 29, 2009
    77
    6
    a big thanks

    I just signed up for this forum after hearing all of you talk about it Saturday(thank goodness my moniker has been open on most of the forums because I belong to to many to remember all the passwords and monikers). I just wanted to say thanks for the great time and instruction. It was great meeting all of you. It is great to be around people that have a passion for shooting and preserving our heritage. This was my second appleseed and I am looking forward to bringing more people in for the fun. Brian and Daniel had a great time on Sunday and I wish Dave and I could have come back.This morning at work a couple guys were talking about shooting at deer this weekend and missing, so I mentioned that it would certainly help them to attend an appleseed. One of them asked what it was and I pulled out Ed's business card with the 1 inch square on it. He quickly told me at 25 yards that would be easy...... We will have to see how this one works out. Thanks again for the training and History.
    John:draw:
     

    NEOCON

    Sharpshooter
    Mar 21, 2008
    469
    16
    Warrick county
    Worksalot, where was your first Appleseed? There was a worksalot at the April shoot in Evansville.

    I also would like to say a special congratulations to .5 on earning her Rifleman patch. This young lady knows what persistance is all about. I believe she was just waiting on shooting the AR for her 210. She is a great example of some of the great younger instructors we have at Appleseed.
     

    hawkhavn

    Sharpshooter
    Apr 2, 2008
    606
    18
    SE Idaho
    Worksalot,

    First thanks for coming out and bringing everyone along, it was great running into old friends and new neighbors!

    Yeah we hear that a bunch...4 MOA is 4 MOA
    PM me you address and I'll drop you some 5 square targets for him to prove it on.

    HH
     

    techres

    Grandmaster
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    Industry Partner
    Mar 14, 2008
    6,479
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    ...One of them asked what it was and I pulled out Ed's business card with the 1 inch square on it. He quickly told me at 25 yards that would be easy...... We will have to see how this one works out. Thanks again for the training and History.
    John:draw:

    Perhaps you forgot to mention the catch:

    1. No Sled.
    2. No Bench Rest.
    3. No table.
    3. No chair.
    4. No bipod.
    5. No spotting scope.

    Oh, and:

    6. No time. (55 seconds goes FAST!)
    7. No quiet. (will those guys with the hats stop yelling?)
    8. No clean & dry. (my mat is a puddle, a muddy puddle)
    9. No pride. (man I stink! And that grandma next to me is a ringer! :xmad: )
    10. No Excuses (the targets don't lie!)

    And in the end, they can always come and try.

    BTW: You and yours did great. You should feel proud, as should they.
     

    Lars

    Rifleman
    Mar 6, 2008
    4,342
    38
    Cedar Creek, TX
    Perhaps you forgot to mention the catch:

    1. No Sled.
    2. No Bench Rest.
    3. No table.
    3. No chair.
    4. No bipod.
    5. No spotting scope.

    Oh, and:

    6. No time. (55 seconds goes FAST!)
    7. No quiet. (will those guys with the hats stop yelling?)
    8. No clean & dry. (my mat is a puddle, a muddy puddle)
    9. No pride. (man I stink! And that grandma next to me is a ringer! :xmad: )
    10. No Excuses (the targets don't lie!)

    And in the end, they can always come and try.

    BTW: You and yours did great. You should feel proud, as should they.

    #8 is my favorite.
    Although #7 and #6 are close seconds and thirds.
     

    techres

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Industry Partner
    Mar 14, 2008
    6,479
    38
    1
    #8 is my favorite.
    Although #7 and #6 are close seconds and thirds.

    It's not like we were picking on you. I mean, it's not like you had one student helping you while 3 instructors (Bill Of Rights, Hawkhavn, and NEOCON) were encircling you and helping with your ball and dummy skills...



    Oh, wait, that DID happen:

    4149453780_091553df16.jpg
     

    Bill of Rights

    Cogito, ergo porto.
    Site Supporter
    Apr 26, 2008
    18,096
    77
    Where's the bacon?
    Perhaps you forgot to mention the catch:

    1. No Sled.
    2. No Bench Rest.
    3. No table.
    3. No chair.
    4. No bipod.
    5. No spotting scope.

    Oh, and:

    6. No time. (55 seconds goes FAST!)
    7. No quiet. (will those guys with the hats stop yelling?)
    8. No clean & dry. (my mat is a puddle, a muddy puddle)
    9. No pride. (man I stink! And that grandma next to me is a ringer! :xmad: )
    10. No Excuses (the targets don't lie!)

    And in the end, they can always come and try.

    BTW: You and yours did great. You should feel proud, as should they.

    1, 2, 3, 3, and 4: BAH! Who needs that crap? I have my USGI web sling! (of note, Techres, it's step FOUR (4) that has a) and b) components... just sayin'...;) )
    5: Sure, a spotter scope would be nice, but a Rifleman takes that which he can depend on always being there.

    6: Hey now... we do not limit you to 55 seconds in the prone position... We're generous and understanding... You get 65.
    7: :whistle:
    8: Mat? Our Founders had no mats! They fired from wherever they were, and they didn't have Maytag to clean their clothes on Sunday night!
    9: Pride? Hell yes, you have pride. You are a Rifleman, equipped, trained, ready, willing, and able to carry on in our Founders' tradition. At the firing line, your tool is your rifle. In life, it is your mind and your Rifleman spirit and attitude. Pride is a measure of self-respect, which IMHO is far preferable to "self-esteem". You EARN self-respect. The nice thing is that once you've done so, you have already earned the respect of others, as most of us are our own worst critics.
    10: No, the targets do not lie. Speaking for myself, I am so far out of practice, I'm not sure I could score 210+ today without hours of range time. I know the skills, but I'm out of practice doing them. I've not currently got a range at which to shoot, but this will be changing very soon. Once I have a place to do it, I will be shooting and shooting often. I think someone here has the sig line that an amateur practices until he gets it right. A professional practices until he cannot get it wrong.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     

    worksalot

    Plinker
    Nov 29, 2009
    77
    6
    Neocon you have a twin

    I was at the Evansville shoot with a guy that looked amazing just like you. But we called him Mudcat......How ya been man? I have been watching for you on the FNAR forum. I have even though about seeing if you have time to come to Birdseye and play on my 200yrd range maybe even take a look at placement for a 25yrd mini appleseed range?? Wish I could have been there on Sunday. I am seriously hoping to get more involved in 2010 in the program, work has finally said we could go down to 40hrs a week after 3 years of all you can stand to work. So my #1 passion/hobby can finally get moved closer to the front.
     

    NEOCON

    Sharpshooter
    Mar 21, 2008
    469
    16
    Warrick county
    I've been good, I figured that may be you. I now wish even more so that I could have made it up saturday.
    These guys thought it rained on sunday lol. I am sure you remember the April shoot on sunday. But after you are soaked to the bone you don't get any wetter.

    Just give me a yell sometime I may be able to drive over for a while. I haven't been on the FN forum for a long time since there is so much drama on there, I stay away.
    I pretty much hang out here and the Appleseed forum
     
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