Nurse Arrested Because She Would Not Draw Blood Without Consent

[public servant]

No, I want the judge to force them to take re-education classes for a long, long time. I want them to have to do some type of give back to the community programs. And by them I mean EVERY ONE in the police department. From the intern to the police chief. This way they all learn that if one of them messes up they will all pay for it.

You start doing this and sooner or later they are going to beat the crap out of each other and keep themselves in check. Are you, say policeman Joe, going to want to have to go back to the 4 hour weekly re-education class for 1 year because your dumb partner can't keep his anger in control and abuses his power? I don't think so.

They jack us up we will JACK them up to the point where they **WILL** think twice next time.

You wanna know how to get them? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. *That's* the *Chicago* way! And that's how you get them.

In this case the morgue is forcing all of them to pay a punishment for the mistake of 1.

So...you're really not looking to correct anything. You're just looking to punish someone. Anyone. All of them...even those who did nothing wrong...correct?

How about we just punish those who did wrong and leave those who do their job in the correct manner alone?

 

[theweakerbrother]

Quick. Have several LEO defend their brother rather than the unwashed masses!

 

[public servant]

Quick. Have several LEO defend their brother rather than the unwashed masses!

If that was directed at me in whole or in part...I suggest you re-read my post. I have no problem re-educating or punishing the guilty party.

But to punish someone who shares no guilt in the matter seems a little...foolish?

Let's say a guy shoots and kills his neighbor during a hunting accident. Do we force all gun owners to take hunter education or gun safety classes because of it? Do we confiscate all guns because a few can't seem to follow common sense safety rules?

Of course we don't.

Punish those that are guilty.

 

[jedi]

So...you're really not looking to correct anything. You're just looking to punish someone. Anyone. All of them...even those who did nothing wrong...correct?

How about we just punish those who did wrong and leave those who do their job in the correct manner alone?

We are correcting the abuse of power. Instead of say $10 million awarded to me I want the judge to have the county or court or whomeever create an abuse of power for LEO which the ENTIRE force must attend for say 2 semesters (1 year). Thus they all get a re-education on what it means to abuse power. Then have them all serve some community service of some type as well.


What does this due for those that are innocent? Well I think back to my days in catholic school. When idiot "david" who toss spilt balls at the girls and Sister Irene would caught him since the rest of us boys did not say anything about it *ALL* the boys got in trouble. We have to clean those damb bathrooms and in the fall (if it was fall when it occured) rack the leaves instead of getting detention. What did this do? You beat that idiot "David" never did it again cause we (the other boys) woudl kick his butt for getting us all in trouble! In essence we began to police ourselevs. Yes we still (as a group) did some bad things but were willing to as a group take the punsihment. But if just one of us wanted to act bad, the rest of us would jump on them and ensure they stayed in line.

That is what I would want from the Judge. Begin to hand this type of punishment across America and I bet yo police will think twice just liek we did in school before doing something Sister Irene would beat us for.

EVIL I know but an unorthodox method of teaching and from the looks of it handling out millions in lawsuits has NOT taught the police nothing!

 

[SavageEagle]

Hey, it's like I said earlier, we don't know if those other LEO's knew the law or not. Maybe they KNEW they didn't know the law so instead of doing what we all thought they should do, they just let the idiot get himself into trouble. We don't know what was said on scene or what they actually did. They could have sat there with their thumbs up their rears or they could have been cheering GET THAT BROAD! We just don't know.

And besides, what would you charge them with? Sitting on their thumbs? We'll never know what they were really doing on scene.

 

[public servant]

We are correcting the abuse of power. Instead of say $10 million awarded to me I want the judge to have the county or court or whomeever create an abuse of power for LEO which the ENTIRE force must attend for say 2 semesters (1 year). Thus they all get a re-education on what it means to abuse power. Then have them all serve some community service of some type as well.


What does this due for those that are innocent? Well I think back to my days in catholic school. When idiot "david" who toss spilt balls at the girls and Sister Irene would caught him since the rest of us boys did not say anything about it *ALL* the boys got in trouble. We have to clean those damb bathrooms and in the fall (if it was fall when it occured) rack the leaves instead of getting detention. What did this do? You beat that idiot "David" never did it again cause we (the other boys) woudl kick his butt for getting us all in trouble! In essence we began to police ourselevs. Yes we still (as a group) did some bad things but were willing to as a group take the punsihment. But if just one of us wanted to act bad, the rest of us would jump on them and ensure they stayed in line.

That is what I would want from the Judge. Begin to hand this type of punishment across America and I bet yo police will think twice just liek we did in school before doing something Sister Irene would beat us for.

EVIL I know but an unorthodox method of teaching and from the looks of it handling out millions in lawsuits has NOT taught the police nothing!

I suggest you seek help for all that pent-up frustration involving Sister Irene.

While I understand you point...I still see it as rather foolish. Your issue should be with the LEO that fails to do his or her job properly. For the hundreds or thousands of screw-ups...there are millions of LEO's the do their jobs properly and to the best of their ability.

I'm sure we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[turnandshoot4]

If the nurse had taken the blood without a court order they (yes not she, guys can be nurses) could lose their license. Weather the hospital wants to stand behind them or not doesn't matter at the end of the day as long as they have their license. It is hard getting one, and I am not going to give it up because someone can't do their job right.

Besides, it is assault and battery if the nurse draws blood without consent.

 

[theweakerbrother]

If that was directed at me in whole or in part...I suggest you re-read my post. I have no problem re-educating or punishing the guilty party.

But to punish someone who shares no guilt in the matter seems a little...foolish?

Let's say a guy shoots and kills his neighbor during a hunting accident. Do we force all gun owners to take hunter education or gun safety classes because of it? Do we confiscate all guns because a few can't seem to follow common sense safety rules?

Of course we don't.

Punish those that are guilty.

It wasn't directed at you at all... unless you think the officers need defending for their illegal arrest. Our posts were only a few minutes apart from each other, check the time stamp.

Officer one who arrested the nurse for non-compliance should be horse-whipped. The two who stood by and did nothing need re-education at best. This is pretty basic stuff. You want blood, you need a warrant. You don't have a warrant but act anyway, they get your blood.

I've said this in other threads... if I break the law, I go to jail or get a ticket. If a cop breaks a law, he or she rarely receives the same punishment as I would.

I know it has to be hard to be a cop and more so if you live in a large city. This is never justification to abuse authority or arrest someone just because you're having a bad day.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Jedi, I hear what you're saying about policing themselves- that is, if all of the officers with a dept have to sit through a painfully boring 4 hr class every freakin' week because one guy can't get his anger under control, the rest will act as a "check" on him when they see him crossing the line.

The flaw in that is that if one LTCH holder in Indiana screws up, the same logic would force all of us into regular re-education classes to keep our LTCHs, and that's no more a proper function of the law than the punishment you suggested. I do agree that those who know and do nothing to stop the abuse of power are complicit and those who can be shown to have had knowledge of the abuse and been in a position to correct it should pay a penalty as well, but to make it applicable to every cop on every shift, even the ones who weren't involved? No, I can't support that. Just because Sister Irene did it to one naughty and several innocent schoolboys does not make it right- besides, wouldn't Original Sin mean that no one was really innocent and therefore, all of you really deserved to be punished, even if she didn't know why? (and in case it's not obvious, this last is TEASING and neither a bash of Catholicism nor an intentional threadjack)

Blessings,
Bill

 

[mettle]

Not anymore I don't, I got out and moved to America. Long story but it wound up with me learning the necessity to protect myself and those close to me. Since IL doesn't believe in the right to self preservation, I left.

And for the competitive pay statement: I'm currently seeking employment in Chicago. In NWI I don't and can't receive a wage that I would consider in line with my responsibilities.

Boy I know that boat to row... I was at 22. an hour this time last year...

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I do not know IL law, with that being said here in MI if we take someone to the hospital to draw blood, We have a court order signed by a Judge to do just that! if she or the hospital refused they would be in contempt of court, In MI a signed Search Warrant is the only way we can draw blood from a DUI suspect.

How would it be contempt of court? I don't know MI law, but unless the warrant specifically named the person refusing it wouldn't be contempt in my opinion. Maybe obstruction of justice? If the police had a search warrant for my neighbors house, and asked me to come along and help kick the door in, and I refused I wouldn't be in contempt of court, the warrant was to search his house not for me to help, but in IN I might be able to be charged with failing to follow a lawful order unless I can come up with a reasonable reason why I did so.

Let's say a guy shoots and kills his neighbor during a hunting accident. Do we force all gun owners to take hunter education or gun safety classes because of it?

I see your point, but if it was a repeated occurrence with different hunters all from the same hunter ed class... I could see the hunters that attended that one having to retake it.

 

[Indy317]

I've said this in other threads... if I break the law, I go to jail or get a ticket. If a cop breaks a law, he or she rarely receives the same punishment as I would.

Do you have facts to back this up? Civilians that get a DUI usually don't get fired, unless their job is related to their being able to drive. Most folks who get a DUI work around the short license suspension (it seems most judges will order a hardship license, to and from work, to and from grocery shopping, etc.). Officers have to be able to drive. I know most departments would likely suspend an officer, without pay, for a set time frame. Will all depts. do this...I doubt it, but I believe most would. So with DUIs, I would say that cops get more punishment (their plea agreements are no different for first time offenders than most other people) for their crime than your average civilian. There are lawyers who get DUIs, they might get a slap on the hand by the bar. There are Drs. who get DUIs, again, likely a slap on the hand when dealing with first time offenders. They both likely get to go right back to work making money.

Now I know that sometimes cops get treated different when they are locked up, but some of that is based upon the protection for the officer. If a jail is busy and has no way to isolate an officer who has been arrested, I see no problem with trying to streamline that officer to a quick bail hearing. If you believe in innocent until proven guilty, then you have to respect that an officer who gets a quick bail (not a bail that is substantially lower than others accused of a similar crime) for the basis of the officer's safety.

I am sure there are examples of officers getting "special treatment," but I don't see very many. I see many signing similar plea deals (for minor misdemeanors) just like average civilians. Not only that, a cop in a small town who gets a DUI conviction is now screwed if they were thinking of move to certain departments. There are already some departments that won't allow any DUI convictions. How many states bar lawyers from practicing law for a one time misdemeanor DUI? How many law firms won't hire a lawyer because they had such a crime 10 years ago? What about doctors, plumbers, hair stylist, etc.?

 

[Prometheus]

Do you have facts to back this up? Civilians that get a DUI usually don't get fired, unless their job is related to their being able to drive. Most folks who get a DUI work around the short license suspension (it seems most judges will order a hardship license, to and from work, to and from grocery shopping, etc.). Officers have to be able to drive.

I knew three people who were fired from their jobs when they got a DUI, neither were cops. Three out of four. The fourth is/was a bar tender, she's the only one her was able to keep her job.

Preference / deference is always given to the badge. Right or wrong, thats the way it is.

To try and act like a cop having to drive for his job is any different than a taxi cab driver or pizza hut delivery guy is ridiculous. It's the same equivalent / end game.

I'll be man enough to admit I was given a 'free pass' on a DUI because the third officer to arrive knew me / knew I was a fire fighter and I would have lost my job over it (long story, .08 right on the line, I wasn't totally blitz or anything). I gave my word I'd call someone to come pick me up and they left me on the side of the road... yes I did have someone come and get me. Along the same lines 3 of my 4 friends who've had DUI's also blew .08's. They got arrested and lost good paying jobs because of it.

I don't view myself above or below anyone. We should all get the same treatment. Anything else is elitist. I also think the .08 needs to brought back up to .10, but thats another topic.

 

[RCB]

What I have noticed in the past (not current police officers) is that they wouldn't get charged. I have only been witness to two occurrences though (once was a friend and was in the back of the car and in the passenger seat in the other... two different people though).

Some police officers are trained to believe in their own authority. Part of that is need on their part to get citizens to recognize them as authority. Unfortunately, laws are too numerous to know. They think they know what they can and can't do and like many of us... are wrong from time to time.

Also in the past with a particular large department in Indiana, there was a rampant domestic abuse issue. However, as they were police officers it was brushed under the rug. One of them I knew was given a choice by his wife to pick either that department or her. That was many years ago though... he is now a chef.

What a lot of people out there need to realize is that police are no different than any one else. All the same problems and hurdles. It's why placing too much power in police hands is problematic, particularly when combined with the consideration give to their positions in legal cases.

I have seen one officer cool another one off before though. So they are out there watching for each other in some cases.

 

[Bisley Man]

This leo is an underwear stain on honest LEO. Easier to pick on a nurse than to chase killers.