Obamacare Is Constitutional

[mrjarrell]

So says a federal judge in Virginia in the case brought forth by Liberty University. He makes a compelling argument, given precedent in matters concerning the Commerce Clause. It looks like he relied heavily on the drug warrior inspired Gonzales v. Raich (which has been discussed here before) for his decision. The laws of unintended consequences have struck again and we get to see what was handed to us by conservative politicians. It will be interesting to see where this goes, as it inches its way to the SCOTUS. For now, Obamacare stands (and the republicrats will do nothing on the legislative side to dismantle it) and we're stuck with it.

You Don't Actually Have to Be Engaged In Commerce For Your Choices to Be Regulated Under the Commerce Clause - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

 

[Hoosier Gun Coat]

"To regulate commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes".

Commerce Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does the commerce clause give the government the right to make you buy something and punish you if you don't? If so, where does it end? I believe that the commerce clause is a very dangerous tool in their bag of tricks.

 

[Expat]

I know this is really long and hard to read, but I think it is important. Remember that James Madison wrote the Constitution. So I think if anyone knew what it meant it would be him. Compare his opinion on the commerce clause and the claims the judges and politicians make today.

To the House of Representatives of the United States:

Having considered the bill this day presented to me entitled "An act to set apart and pledge certain funds for internal improvements," and which sets apart and pledges funds "for constructing roads and canals, and improving the navigation of water courses, in order to facilitate, promote, and give security to internal commerce among the several States, and to render more easy and less expensive the means and provisions for the common defense," I am constrained by the insuperable difficulty I feel in reconciling the bill with the Constitution of the United States to return it with that objection to the House of Representatives, in which it originated.

The legislative powers vested in Congress are specified and enumerated in the eighth section of the first article of the Constitution, and it does not appear that the power proposed to be exercised by the bill is among the enumerated powers, or that it falls by any just interpretation within the power to make laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution those or other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States.

"The power to regulate commerce among the several States" can not include a power to construct roads and canals, and to improve the navigation of water courses in order to facilitate, promote, and secure such a commerce without a latitude of construction departing from the ordinary import of the terms strengthened by the known inconveniences which doubtless led to the grant of this remedial power to Congress.

To refer the power in question to the clause "to provide for the common defense and general welfare" would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation, as rendering the special and careful enumeration of powers which follow the clause nugatory and improper. Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms "common defense and general welfare" embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust. It would have the effect of subjecting both the Constitution and laws of the several States in all cases not specifically exempted to be superseded by laws of Congress, it being expressly declared "that the Constitution of the United States and laws made in pursuance thereof shall be the supreme law of the land, and the judges of every State shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." Such a view of the Constitution, finally, would have the effect of excluding the judicial authority of the United States from its participation in guarding the boundary between the legislative powers of the General and the State Governments, inasmuch as questions relating to the general welfare, being questions of policy and expediency, are unsusceptible of judicial cognizance and decision.

A restriction of the power "to provide for the common defense and general welfare" to cases which are to be provided for by the expenditure of money would still leave within the legislative power of Congress all the great and most important measures of Government, money being the ordinary and necessary means of carrying them into execution.

If a general power to construct roads and canals, and to improve the navigation of water courses, with the train of powers incident thereto, be not possessed by Congress, the assent of the States in the mode provided in the bill can not confer the power. The only cases in which the consent and cession of particular States can extend the power of Congress are those specified and provided for in the Constitution.

I am not unaware of the great importance of roads and canals and the improved navigation of water courses, and that a power in the National Legislature to provide for them might be exercised with signal advantage to the general prosperity. But seeing that such a power is not expressly given by the Constitution, and believing that it can not be deduced from any part of it without an inadmissible latitude of construction and a reliance on insufficient precedents; believing also that the permanent success of the Constitution depends on a definite partition of powers between the General and the State Governments, and that no adequate landmarks would be left by the constructive extension of the powers of Congress as proposed in the bill, I have no option but to withhold my signature from it, and to cherishing the hope that its beneficial objects may be attained by a resort for the necessary powers to the same wisdom and virtue in the nation which established the Constitution in its actual form and providently marked out in the instrument itself a safe and practicable mode of improving it as experience might suggest.

JAMES MADISON.

 

[strahd71]

Does Obama do anything constitutional?
i'm sorry that came out before i could stop it........... carry on!

jake

 

[mrjarrell]

"To regulate commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes".

Commerce Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does the commerce clause give the government the right to make you buy something and punish you if you don't? If so, where does it end? I believe that the commerce clause is a very dangerous tool in their bag of tricks.

It's always been a dangerous tool, but Gonzales turned it on its head and set the precedent for future depredations and interpretations. Politicians created a monster, just to stop some ill people from ingesting a plant, and now it's come back to bite us in the ***, again. You can thank Mark Souder for this one.

 

[DragonGunner]

In the old days this country was a Republic.....but now that we have slipped into a Democracy....pretty much anything goes.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

So everyone agrees. This is a bad thing. Now what's your suggestion to fix it? Do we all just sit around on the Interznet and build up hatred of our government until it bursts? I've never seen you recommend any course of action. What do we do now?

 

[mrjarrell]

So everyone agrees. This is a bad thing. Now what's your suggestion to fix it? Do we all just sit around on the Interznet and build up hatred of our government until it bursts? I've never seen you recommend any course of action. What do we do now?

Those of us with an interest in stopping it are doing what we can, in the usual manner. All that can be done, for the moment is to communicate your position to your "representatives" and demand that they act in your interest. I guess we could just skip all that and go to the pitchforks and rifles stage, but that's not going to happen. What have you done? Did you take your law degree and run for office, (putting your money where your mouth is)? Or did you just speak on the internet in an effort to shut down discourse? We're here discussing the ruling, no more, no less. If some folks get riled up and write or call their congressional reps, excellent. If they decide to keep a further eye on them and vote accordingly next go around, excellent. What have you done lately?

 

[Pocketman]

Many of these newly elected and reelected Republicans ran on a platform of opposing Obamacare. Let's see how serious they really are. My bet is there may be a few "enhancements" to support their special interests, but no repeal.

 

[machete]

"To regulate commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes".

Commerce Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does the commerce clause give the government the right to make you buy something and punish you if you don't? If so, where does it end? I believe that the commerce clause is a very dangerous tool in their bag of tricks.

they make me buy car insurance against my will!!!! aint nothing they cant do...

 

[ATOMonkey]

Yea commerce clause!!!

 

[machete]

So everyone agrees. This is a bad thing.

not so fast... lots of people...maybe most people...think obamacare is a good thing...

we dont live in NYC or other huge cities...

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Those of us with an interest in stopping it are doing what we can, in the usual manner. All that can be done, for the moment is to communicate your position to your "representatives" and demand that they act in your interest. I guess we could just skip all that and go to the pitchforks and rifles stage, but that's not going to happen. What have you done? Did you take your law degree and run for office, (putting your money where your mouth is)? Or did you just speak on the internet in an effort to shut down discourse? We're here discussing the ruling, no more, no less. If some folks get riled up and write or call their congressional reps, excellent. If they decide to keep a further eye on them and vote accordingly next go around, excellent. What have you done lately?

You must have misunderstood the question. I agree this is a problem. What specific suggestions do you have to fix it?

 

[ATOMonkey]

The only recourse we as the electorate have is to either bring suite against the government or ***** and moan to our representatives and senators.

 

[mrjarrell]

The only recourse we as the electorate have is to either bring suite against the government or ***** and moan to our representatives and senators.

This. Although, the suit part is likely to go nowhere, due to Gonzales v. Raiche.

 

[mrjarrell]

You must have misunderstood the question. I agree this is a problem. What specific suggestions do you have to fix it?

I don't want to "fix" Obamacare. I want it gone. As for my suggestions they are listed in my post.

 

[rjstew317]

they make me buy car insurance against my will!!!! aint nothing they cant do...

but they didn't make you buy the car, that was your choice. the insurance is to protect others that you may possibly injure with said car, or property damage said car may cause.

 

[strahd71]

to be honest, my wife and I struggled and lived in abject poverty with our 4 children while she went back to school for her nursing degree so that we could have more money and benifits. its frustrating to think we could have just waited, we could have got it for free!

what ever happened to the old american dream where you work hard and YOU control your destiny? the new dream is just wait the government will take care of you with cradle to grave entitlements, no wonder were fallin apart as a country

 

[machete]

but they didn't make you buy the car, that was your choice. the insurance is to protect others that you may possibly injure with said car, or property damage said car may cause.

and theyll say that obamacare just protects everyone else,,,from the cost of your health problems...

 

[Expat]

they make me buy car insurance against my will!!!! aint nothing they cant do...

The Federal Government does not make you buy car insurance. That is state law. The US Constitution as originally written, would not forbid the States from making you buy car insurance in order to drive upon the public roadways.