OC at Wal-Mart in Missouri, hassled by police

[msk]

You always need to be very carful when you waive your rights like these ladies did

What rights did they waive?

 

[IndyGunworks]

The right to not be questioned or detained by police unless your are suspected of a crime.

 

[msk]

Alright. .. if you say so.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

Well, try walking away sometime. You only give the LEO a reason go go all tactical on you when you do. Get all up in his face and see where that gets you...

I see a lot of smack talking here but I bet none of you doing so actually walk that walk in real life. If you do, you deserve all the trouble it gets you.

There is a difference between asserting your rights and telling a cop to go pound sand or simply walking away from them without a word.

I'll take that bet!!!

 

[Miketodd]

Well, try walking away sometime. You only give the LEO a reason go go all tactical on you when you do. Get all up in his face and see where that gets you...

I see a lot of smack talking here but I bet none of you doing so actually walk that walk in real life. If you do, you deserve all the trouble it gets you.

There is a difference between asserting your rights and telling a cop to go pound sand or simply walking away from them without a word.

What trouble? Ask if you are being detained, if the LEO doesn't say "Yes" turn and leave. If he tells you to stop, he is than detaining you and if he doesn't have a legal reason with probable cause, he is illegally detaining you.

 

[warthog]

make sure you have someone video it so I can laugh at you.

I'll take that bet!!!

 

[warthog]

What trouble? Ask if you are being detained, if the LEO doesn't say "Yes" turn and leave. If he tells you to stop, he is than detaining you and if he doesn't have a legal reason with probable cause, he is illegally detaining you.

do you mean he is THEN detaining you?

Again, I say try it. I m sure you haven't yet done so. When you have and can prove it to me, I will yield the point to you. Until then, I would bet you will find yourself charged with resisting arrest despite the fact he just got finished telling you that he wasn't detaining you, yet. He was questioning you and he does have this right and you do have to submit ID to the officer upon request. Ask me how I know.

When you get a better feel for how the real world works rather than how this mystical Ideal internet world works, then go all up in his face and make sure you post it to YouTube for all to see.

 

[9mmfan]

I see where you are trying to go with this, but I honestly don't draw the same parallels. LEO #1 was responding to a call. It is his job to ensure that the girls with guns weren't criminals or whatever. Open carry, while constitutional,

scares the crap out of John Q Public

. Right or wrong...the police were called. At that point, LEO had a job to do. Could he have handled the situation differently...sure he could of but hindsight is always 20/20. Forgive me, but telling the officer to **** off (referencing comments from others, not you specifically) is not only disrespectful, its childish.

I am just glad that there are so MANY tough guys and gals on INGO that are hard-asses and have no problem telling the popo whats up....

So my didn't the public go berserk at the Meijer store last weekend because I saw a fello INGOer there OPEN CARRYING? He didn't even get attacked my the vaunted 5 yr old girl. From what I saw, no one even saw is openly carried handgun.
Not to mention mine, which as usual was about half/half oc/cc. No one saw the bottom part of my holster sticking out from under my shirt.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

make sure you have someone video it so I can laugh at you.

Will do Corky!!

 

[IndyGunworks]

do you mean he is THEN detaining you?

Again, I say try it. I m sure you haven't yet done so. When you have and can prove it to me, I will yield the point to you. Until then, I would bet you will find yourself charged with resisting arrest despite the fact he just got finished telling you that he wasn't detaining you, yet. He was questioning you and he does have this right and you do have to submit ID to the officer upon request. Ask me how I know.

When you get a better feel for how the real world works rather than how this mystical Ideal internet world works, then go all up in his face and make sure you post it to YouTube for all to see.

Then after you are charged incorrectly and you fight it, which you should, then we can all be one step closer to the police UNDERSTANDING what all of our rights are. I understand this can be an inconvenience but its the way that we fight for our rights into todays society, through the courts. Long gone are the days when our forefathers picked up muskets to protect them. Now we exercise the rights they gave us, and when they are infringed we fight the battle in court. Do sacrifices have to be made? Yes. Will you be inconvenienced? Yes. But thousands of Americans have not sacrificed their lives for our freedoms to have us NOT exercise them simply because its not the easy thing to do, or that its not what society expects from us. I for one and happy to make a stand for my rights, hoping that you may not have to since you have already expressed that you are unwilling to do so.

 

[Miketodd]

Uh oh, Grammer Nazi...
I understand that in the state of Indiana you have to produce LTCH (not ID) when carrying, but at that point, if not being detained, you can leave. There is no lawful reason for questioning. I can't prove to you where this has happened to me because I have no video and you won't take my word for it. My point is, after producing ID (if required) and no crime has been commited, I'm not standing around for a lecture. I was a reserve officer for 3 years, and while some might not consider that a "real" LEO, i still had a badge, wrote tickets, had arresting powers and recieved a lot of education. I speak out of experiences being on both sides of "the law".

 

[jdewyse]

My point is I am giving the officer whatever he brings to the party, show up smiling and friendly and I will be smiling and friendly. Show up looking like some one pissed on your poptarts and I will be a dick

^^^
This. With me you get what you give. Be respecful and get respect, be a dismissive ass that won't answer simple questions get the same in return.

 

[Bunnykid68]

do you mean he is THEN detaining you?

Again, I say try it. I m sure you haven't yet done so. When you have and can prove it to me, I will yield the point to you. Until then, I would bet you will find yourself charged with resisting arrest despite the fact he just got finished telling you that he wasn't detaining you, yet. He was questioning you and he does have this right and you do have to submit ID to the officer upon request. Ask me how I know.

When you get a better feel for how the real world works rather than how this mystical Ideal internet world works, then go all up in his face and make sure you post it to YouTube for all to see.

Show me some laws that support this

 

[msk]

So my didn't the public go berserk at the Meijer store last weekend because I saw a fello INGOer there OPEN CARRYING? He didn't even get attacked my the vaunted 5 yr old girl. From what I saw, no one even saw is openly carried handgun.
Not to mention mine, which as usual was about half/half oc/cc. No one saw the bottom part of my holster sticking out from under my shirt.

Somebody saw their guns. Somebody called the police. Perhaps in your situation nobody saw you carrying. Or perhaps the people in the Meijer you were in didn't care? I don't know meng....

 

[SteveM4A1]

I'm sorry, but if I am walking down the sidewalk (unarmed and not breaking any laws) and a LEO asks me for ID I don't have to do anything until he can articulate reasonable suspicion for asking me. You do not have to identify yourself unless he has RAS.

 

[mrjarrell]

Show me some laws that support this

He won't be able to, as there is no law that supports this. You are only required to show ID if you have committed an infraction or ordinance violation or committed any serious crime. No-one in this circumstance met that qualification. In Indiana he may request to see your LTCH, but you don't have to show him your ID.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Well, try walking away sometime. You only give the LEO a reason go go all tactical on you when you do. Get all up in his face and see where that gets you...

I see a lot of smack talking here but I bet none of you doing so actually walk that walk in real life. If you do, you deserve all the trouble it gets you.

There is a difference between asserting your rights and telling a cop to go pound sand or simply walking away from them without a word.

I don't think there is a single person on INGO, or anywhere for that matter that can say that I do not "walk the walk."

Personally I think we need a LOT more people to start standing up to this kind of treatment from our public servant and hold them accountable to US- the law abiding citizenship. There should be NO tolerance in this country for police or any sort of government official to hassle people when no crime has been committed.

This BS of "responding to a call" is an excuse that holds zero water with me. I have seen the run cards, I have heard the radio chatter and I know what goes on with these MWAG 10-32 calls. The police in this country have been trained and rewarded for their actions of harassing people as long as it doesn't affect the people that think they are better than everyone else.

Let the police come and try to ruin your wedding reception, let them kick your family out of a public park, let them hassle your family outing, how about handcuffing you because you won't answer their questions since no crime was suspected, let them pull you over and point your own firearm at your wife and child as you are disarmed and searched like a criminal. Then you will understand that the public relations part between armed citizens and police needs a major overhauling.

 

[cobber]

I see where you are trying to go with this, but I honestly don't draw the same parallels. LEO #1 was responding to a call. It is his job to ensure that the girls with guns weren't criminals or whatever. Open carry, while constitutional, scares the crap out of John Q Public. Right or wrong...the police were called. At that point, LEO had a job to do. Could he have handled the situation differently...sure he could of but hindsight is always 20/20. Forgive me, but telling the officer to **** off (referencing comments from others, not you specifically) is not only disrespectful, its childish.

I am just glad that there are so MANY tough guys and gals on INGO that are hard-asses and have no problem telling the popo whats up....

A person carrying an arm gives rise to a reasonable belief that person is a citizen. Which is as of yet still not an offense.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

A person carrying an arm gives rise to a reasonable belief that person is a citizen. Absent other indicators of criminal behavior...

Correct! We need to re-educate the public at large that there is no reasonable suspicion with carrying a weapon in public. The problem is that most people have been conditioned to be at the mercy of police if they want to question you. IE if they wait long enough and watch you closely you WILL break some sort of ordinance or infraction that will allow them to make a non-consensual contact.

Let me add that I in no way have a problem with TRUE consensual encounters, I have had plenty and ALL have ended well usually without even showing my LTCH.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Maybe we should have an OC AK ride