OC breakfast at Shake - n - Steak..... a feeler

[NDguido]

They are welcome to their opinions, too.




Perhaps corporate and most local managers are unaware of this knowledge, since this appears extremely rare at any other Indiana Steak and Shakes where openly carrying is routinely ignored.

Again I find myself in an OC paradox. I am in full support of open carry, but can't help but notice the flaw in logic. Open carriers are constantly claiming that the general public rarely, if ever notices them open carrying, yet when the manager of an establishment doesn't comment on an open carrying customer, he is ignoring it.

 

[Hammerhead]

Think of it this way.

One person carrying (or a few, I don't recall if others in the discussed group were carrying off the top of my head) can be asked to leave because they're making people nervous.

10 or 15 or 20 people OCing are now making that restaurant the absolute safest place in the state.

The thing is, we can't know if people are ignoring us or unaware. One person can be missed or ignored. 15 people are being ignored.

I mentioned in the other thread that I've openly carried in the Columbus SnS, even going so far as to use their wi-fi to live post about doing so on here. Fact is, I've OC'd in Franklin, Greenwood, and on the Southside at SnS, without issue.

Was I just ignored or was I missed by the staff? Doesn't matter because I don't care. I'm still going to carry at SnS just like I carry everywhere else I legally can.

 

[NDguido]

Think of it this way.

One person carrying (or a few, I don't recall if others in the discussed group were carrying off the top of my head) can be asked to leave because they're making people nervous.

10 or 15 or 20 people OCing are now making that restaurant the absolute safest place in the state.

The thing is, we can't know if people are ignoring us or unaware. One person can be missed or ignored. 15 people are being ignored.

I mentioned in the other thread that I've openly carried in the Columbus SnS, even going so far as to use their wi-fi to live post about doing so on here. Fact is, I've OC'd in Franklin, Greenwood, and on the Southside at SnS, without issue.

Was I just ignored or was I missed by the staff? Doesn't matter because I don't care. I'm still going to carry at SnS just like I carry everywhere else I legally can.

So, to clarify, you don't recognize a private establishment's right to enforce their own policy?

 

[daddymikey1975]

Again, I am puzzled why anybody would intentionally force themselves into an establishment where they know they are not welcome. Disrespecting the right of a business to enforce their own policy does nothing to put gun owners into a positive light.

The door is unlocked and open. Who would be forcing themselves into Steak n shake

I was told by one ingo member that nobody here ever holds a demonstration inside an establishment that has a no carry policy. Wrong again!

It's not a demonstration. It's simply some like minded folks gathering for breakfast at a local establishment before we go to the shooting range. Simply put, a 'meet, eat, greet, then shoot'. No holding of signs, no loud and boisterous people.. I would even bring my wife and kids along (they love strawberry french toast)

Bringing in deadly weapons into an establishment with a history of asking patrons not to do so, may not seem peaceful to some.

They already have deadly weapons inside said establishment (kitchen knives, box cutters

And I am so grateful that I am welcome to my opinion.

As am I, and I would defend your right to voice it, even if I disagree

Actually, having done my own research, Steak and Shake is officially anti carry. I've known this for years.

Please cite a specific source (beyond simply telling us that you've been asked to leave). TGI Friday's is notoriously Anti 2A, but I was just at the South Bend location with my wife and 2 younger children Friday night while OCing. The only thing that was different than any other visit was that the staff seemed more polite and my wife got carded for ordering a mudslide (weird.. but made her feel good).. So.. does TGIF have a company policy that prohibits carrying firearms into their restaurants ? Is it a franchise-centric decision ?? I do not have the answer, however, I can tell you for certainty that I did OC and they were ok with it (or missed it some how as some may posit).

They are welcome to their opinions, too.

Thank you

Perhaps corporate and most local managers are unaware of this knowledge, since this appears extremely rare at any other Indiana Steak and Shakes where openly carrying is routinely ignored.

The idea isn't to disrespect any property rights or managers. Some of us that OC view situations like this (being asked to leave, and leaving immediately and politely as asked) as an opportunity to educate some folks that might be scared or not have all the facts, not to start trouble or stir up drama.

ETA:

So, to clarify, you don't recognize a private establishment's right to enforce their own policy?

We absolutely do. How many INgo members would OC into ANY Simon owned shopping mall ?? it is (and has been) their policy to not allow firearms. Most of us would never step foot in such an establishment for this reason. However, when you have a scenario where 1 person (manager or employee) might not have all the facts and creates policies on the spot, it offers an opportunity for clarification. Either it IS a corporate policy or an individual store policy, OR something made up on the spot based on ill conceived notions that this guy was going to go rambo. Either way, it's an opportunity for clarification one way or the other.

Why is it ok to have an OC event at Potawatomi park but not at Steak n Shake ?

A co worker (who happens to be a LEO) was asked to leave Wal Mart for OC and he had his badge on his belt next to his gun.. he was in plain clothes and off duty. He asked the employee (or manager, can't remember) what the problem was and told him "dude, I'm a cop, can't you see my badge? what's the problem?" Then the police were called and showed up. The uniformed LEO came in and asked what the problem was. My co-worker simply asked "theres your badge and gun, here's mine. What's the difference ?".. LEO replied "none".. the wal mart employee still wanted my co worker to leave so he did. Wal mart has a CORPORATE policy to allow firearms to be carried in accordance with local state laws. This employee made something up on the spot and is clearly uneducated. See the connection ?

 

[Hammerhead]

So, to clarify, you don't recognize a private establishment's right to enforce their own policy?

First off, was this an establishment's policy, or the knee-jerk ignorant policy of a hoplophobic, uneducated manager?

What myself and several other members here have been repeatedly stating is that this is NOT a policy of the overall corporate entity, it is some response by one manager at one store at that particular moment.

If I, personally, can OC into four different restaurants all along the US 31 corridor in this state without so much as a eye batted for doing so, then I'm going to believe that there is no policy. And yes, I've had the manager bring food to my table, stop by and find out how things are, and even ring me up and take my money when I'm done and NONE of them have said one word.

As far as respecting property rights, if I am ever asked to leave for OCing my sidearm, I will do so. This has not happened to me thus far for the time that I have been carrying. Ever. I do ignore every "no guns" sign I see, including OCing into those establishments. Why? Because they don't mean a damn thing. They're not worth the vinyl they're printed on.

I might CC for the duration of my visit to certain locations, but I do not disarm where I am legally able to carry. Because I do not visit riverboat casinos, jails, courthouses, the state capitol, etc. on a regular basis, and everywhere besides those codified locations are legal to carry, I don't give a flying fornication if they don't like me being armed. I left schools out of the previous sentence specifically because that is generally the only place I visit on a regular basis that I do leave my sidearm at home. I am not, however, disarmed or unable to defend myself and others. And I do support the efforts to change the laws to make victim disarmament zones into criminal injury zones.

Businesses can and do ask people to leave for any number of reasons. They have the right to refuse service to anyone for anything. I'd hate to be the guy who just lost the business of (at least initially) 15 people only to find out that 20,000 + of their friends are mad too. And again, 15 people sitting in a SnS, legally armed (if not all OCing) makes that the safest restaurant on the planet.

 

[NDguido]

The door is unlocked and open. Who would be forcing themselves into Steak n shake



It's not a demonstration. It's simply some like minded folks gathering for breakfast at a local establishment before we go to the shooting range. Simply put, a 'meet, eat, greet, then shoot'. No holding of signs, no loud and boisterous people.. I would even bring my wife and kids along (they love strawberry french toast)

The media and the public in general see it differently. These are the people whose minds you want to change.

Please cite a specific source (beyond simply telling us that you've been asked to leave). TGI Friday's is notoriously Anti 2A, but I was just at the South Bend location with my wife and 2 younger children Friday night while OCing. The only thing that was different than any other visit was that the staff seemed more polite and my wife got carded for ordering a mudslide (weird.. but made her feel good).. So.. does TGIF have a company policy that prohibits carrying firearms into their restaurants ? Is it a franchise-centric decision ?? I do not have the answer, however, I can tell you for certainty that I did OC and they were ok with it (or missed it some how as some may posit).

In this thread, a member emailed corporate about their policy. The reply is pretty clear. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-45772.html

 

[KCVP]

Nice! The old #6....love it!

 

[daddymikey1975]

The media and the public in general see it differently. These are the people whose minds you want to change.



In this thread, a member emailed corporate about their policy. The reply is pretty clear. My letter to Steak and Shake, re: CCW - THR

If you are only capable of reading the first few posts, then yes, I can see how you would interpret those results.. however, take note of a couple things..

1. That thread is from 2003 (super old ??)
2. That thread and letter to the company is based on something that was current in MO (not IN)
and here comes the kicker... read down about 8 or 10 posts:

Okay, at first I got the same boilerplate email as FMJCafe, so I tried again.
Today I got this:
Dear Mr. ********:
My name is Barry Paige and I am Associate Counsel for the Steak n
Shake Company. Thank you for contacting us regarding the signs we posted recently forbidding concealed weapons in our Missouri restaurants. After carefully considering your concerns (which were similar to concerns raised by other Missouri Steak n Shake guests), we have reconsidered our previous position and have removed the signs forbidding concealed weapons. We hope you understand the reason we took our initial action and, correspondingly, we hope you will continue to visit our restaurants. Thank you for your concern. I wish you well with your future endeavors. B. Paige
Starting to look better.
My particular email was bounced from Taritha Braun to Dave Milne to Barry Paige (they left the forward stubs and notes in).

Don't give up after you get a form letter. Keep pressing and sometimes you'll get through to somebody.

So.. from what I can read, your google-fu failed you and (based ONLY on this post) they are PRO 2A ..

Got anything else ?? (remember, you suggested that you had researched this topic, and I asked you to cite your source)

 

[femurphy77]

I don't know that I'd call them pro 2A. They are pro-business and due to similar concerns raised by other MO SNS customers they realized they might alienate a significant number of customers. They've chosen to allow concealed carry, which typically won't be visible anyway, so I wouldn't call that a win, I'd call that throwing a stale cookie to us in appeasement without taking a stand or supporting anything. Now if the letter supported open carry I might say the supported 2A but to simply support something they have no control over , that's just business.

All of this is based on cordex' letter only. Too lazy to research tonight.

 

[brcrbn]

removed.. duplicate information .. dm1975 beat me to the punch

 

[daddymikey1975]

I don't know that I'd call them pro 2A. They are pro-business and due to similar concerns raised by other MO SNS customers they realized they might alienate a significant number of customers. They've chosen to allow concealed carry, which typically won't be visible anyway, so I wouldn't call that a win, I'd call that throwing a stale cookie to us in appeasement without taking a stand or supporting anything. Now if the letter supported open carry I might say the supported 2A but to simply support something they have no control over , that's just business.

All of this is based on cordex' letter only. Too lazy to research tonight.

While I certainly don't disagree with you, I will simply add that since they did post anti gun signs, the removed them is definitely some type of proof that they're not 'anti 2A'.. however, as was already said, this is based on the one letter on the one thread from 2003. A lot may have changed between then and now. If the OP from the Steak n Shake thread sent them a letter (to the corporate office), we might find out for certain.

 

[Fedempl]

Would make sense that Steak-n-Shake is anti-gun since it was founded in Illinois.

 

[daddymikey1975]

I found our answer.. gimme a sec to add to this post.... BRB

Fount here:A "gun-friendly" restaurant?

A couple of weeks ago, I posed a question to the managers of two local Steak & Shake restaurants. I asked them if they knew whether or not customers were allowed to wear their firearms in the restaurants in those states where it is legal. They didn't know and suggested contacting "corporate".
In trying to find out, the Steak & Shake website lead me to Biglari Holdings, a company that also owne Western Sizzlin' steakhouses. There I found a street address so I wrote to ask them. Here is that letter:

Sardar Biglari
Chairman of the Board & CEO
17802 IH 10 West, Suite 400
San Antonio, Texas 78257

Dear Mr. Biglari,

Recently, a manager in one of your Steak & Shake franchises was asked a question that he was unable (or unwilling) to answer. He suggested contacting corporate to try and find the answer.

In searching up the Steak & Shake website, there was no “Contact Us” option to be found. However, there was the link to Biglari Holdings, which also failed to have a “Contact Us” option, hence this letter.

In reading the information at the Holdings website, I came across this piece of information which may have a bearing on the question, particularly, the first two sentences.

III. Ethical Standards

A. Compliance with Applicable Law

Compliance with the law is essential to the Company’s ethical obligations. Covered Persons must obey the laws of the United States and of the states, counties and cities in which the Company conducts business. (emphasis added) While a Covered Person may not know the details of every rule and regulation to which the Company’s activities are subject, all such persons should know enough about the applicable law to know when to seek the help of a supervisor or the Company’s legal counsel.

Based on those two sentences, my question to you sir is, in the 49 States that allow either “Open Carry” or “Concealed Carry” of firearms, do your restaurants and franchises comply with those laws, or do you deny potential customers entry if they are lawfully armed? Remember, this applies only to those people that are already in compliance with the laws in their areas. Anybody intent on causing mayhem in one of your restaurants is most likely already violating the law in some fashion and no sign on the door is going to hinder them in any way.

I have no desire to see one of your operations in the news the way Luby’s Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas did years ago, but if your restaurants do deny potential customers entry on that basis, it makes one wonder just how well that “compliance” is actually followed.

I ask you again, do your restaurants allow law-abiding customers to bring their firearms with them or not?

Sincerely yours,

Last Friday, I got an answer. I scanned the letter and have attached it here for you to read.
I'm not quite sure what to make of it.

Their reply (I registered so we can all see how Steak n Shake replied.. must click on a .jpg link to view)

 

[Hoosierdood]

Reps to you for finding that.

 

[brcrbn]

Reps to you for finding that.

Ditto

 

[Don]

If it wasn't a 300 mile round trip and I'd have to buy a OC holster, I'd be down. $50 tank of gas +food = ouch lol.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Reps to you for finding that.

Ditto

Thanks for the rep gentlemen

If it wasn't a 300 mile round trip and I'd have to buy a OC holster, I'd be down. $50 tank of gas +food = ouch lol.

If you drive all the way up here, I'll pick up the tab for your breakfast

I'm sure you're a cheap date

 

[Compuvette]

You know, I still just don't get this. Yes, it appears they have a corporate policy that would not bar entry for OC-ing a firearm. However, the INGO member was asked to disarm or leave by the manager. That is a legal request. He violated corporate policy, not any laws. That is between the acting manager and his boss as he was the acting representative of the property owner.

Is this a franchise or a corporate store? If it's a franchise they can have different rules from corporate. If he local owner doesn't want guns there, that is their right as it is their property.

 

[daddymikey1975]

You know, I still just don't get this. Yes, it appears they have a corporate policy that would not bar entry for OC-ing a firearm. However, the INGO member was asked to disarm or leave by the manager. That is a legal request. He violated corporate policy, not any laws. That is between the acting manager and his boss as he was the acting representative of the property owner.

Is this a franchise or a corporate store? If it's a franchise they can have different rules from corporate. If he local owner doesn't want guns there, that is their right as it is their property.

While I don't disagree with what you're saying, it is still our prerogative to determine the exact details if we wish, isn't it ?

We are waiting for the OP in the other thread to post back some details after he contacts the big wigs from this particular store. After we receive a reply, we'll be able to make a more educated decision as to how/when we might meet up for breakfast. (kids eat free on the weekends )

 

[Kagnew]

You know, I still just don't get this. Yes, it appears they have a corporate policy that would not bar entry for OC-ing a firearm. However, the INGO member was asked to disarm or leave by the manager. That is a legal request. He violated corporate policy, not any laws. That is between the acting manager and his boss as he was the acting representative of the property owner.

Is this a franchise or a corporate store? If it's a franchise they can have different rules from corporate. If he local owner doesn't want guns there, that is their right as it is their property.