OC carry caused some problems for me today

[ATM]

That would have been a shorter post.

 

[Hayseed_40]

That would have been a shorter post.

It does not have to be a longer post to be superior in virtues

 

[Rookie]

THIS. I have patience with people to a point I just do not understand why some cops seem to be lacking this virtue and insist that being an ass is the best way to enforce laws and respond to the public.

Agreed. I think some of it has to do with the fact that police mostly deal with the less desirable element and adjust their demeanor to handle that type of person. While I understand that is a role they have to play, some need to learn that every interaction isn't with a criminal.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Agreed. I think some of it has to do with the fact that police mostly deal with the less desirable element and adjust their demeanor to handle that type of person. While I understand that is a role they have to play, some need to learn that every interaction isn't with a criminal.

Hit the nail on the head Rookie.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Agreed. I think some of it has to do with the fact that police mostly deal with the less desirable element and adjust their demeanor to handle that type of person. While I understand that is a role they have to play, some need to learn that every interaction isn't with a criminal.

(I will deny if it is ever brought up that I agreed with Rookie)

I think you are correct. Also, LEO are to be in charge of the situation at all times and at all costs. Some do not have the skills to know how to do this without raising voices, demeaning, etc.

 

[ATM]

It does not have to be a longer post to be superior in virtues

True. (<-----see what I did there?)

 

[45lcrevolver]

Maybe if we all send angry letters about this injustice to there captain then maybe we can help them educate their officers about our rights! Just saying it might help.

 

[Hayseed_40]

True. (<-----see what I did there?)

you are learning...

 

[Bill of Rights]

They did after the super arrived. It went pretty well after he got there but it turned a little ugly again after I asked, politely I may add, that I would appreciate an apology considering I did nothing wrong and was exceptionally compliant even beyond what the law calls for. That was when I got the "who do you think you are to question a PO" attitude. I told them I manage people in my job and would expect my employees to apologize if they behaved inappropriately. The Sargeant said, "Well, no harm no foul" and they left. Very friendly but not responsive.

I'm wondering if perhaps the supervisor didn't want to undermine his officer in front of you, but on the way to the cars, told him, "Meet with me before you go home today." and gave him the smackdown in private, at the station. "Praise in public, critique in private", or so goes the theory.

I'm gonna be the devils advocate here to a point. We don't know what the actual call to the PD was. The "young officer" doesn't have the option on what calls to respond to and what ones not to respond to. If he is dispatched he has to respond. Put yourself in his shoes for a minute. He's responding to a call about someone with a gun. He wants to get home to his family at the end of his shift like we all would. He didn't ask for your gun from your post, he asked for your LTCH. The way he asked could have been better, but he gets trained to keep control of a situation because when he loses control all sorts of bad things happen for everybody. Having said that, I'd still request a visit with the Police Chief to discuss how you were treated. Instead of being confrontational he could have said "sir I just asked to see your LTCH due to a complaint" or something along those lines. PO's deal with all kinds of situations and what it looks like at first glance is hardly ever what it really is. He reamins firm, but polite. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt for some of their actions. SOME. I would still talk to the Chief and see what he has to say. Maybe they can come up with something so this doesn't happen again to you or someone else going forward.

Those are my two pennies on the situation.

"When he loses control, all sorts of bad things happen." True, to a point. I've got a whole lot of years having taken charge in emergencies and I can count on one hand with fingers left over how many I've "lost control" on. In NONE of those cases have I violated anyone's rights, nor have I made unreasonable (and illegal) demands of my patients or their families. You can keep control of a situation without being a male sex organ.

I appreciate all the responses. I am scheduled to talk with a commander today. The impression I am getting is that the officer got a dressing down and it is being handled but I want to be sure.

Very glad to hear that it was addressed.

Please request that the ENTIRE DEPARTMENT be educated on the concept of 1) Carry on your OWN PROPERTY and also on 2) Open Carry OFF your property with a LTCH. Ask for follow up (copy of the memos, video of the instructional meeting, etc)

The way I see it, the supervisor who came to your property is JUST AS GUILTY as the young officer. He should have resolved the situation right on the spot. The fact that you didn't get your apology from both of them is a sign that neither was well informed.

Save the rest of the residents a lot of hassle and get the commander to retrain his officers.

<rhetorical question>MD, if you and your wife disagree on a decision in re: your daughter, do either of you argue it in front of her, or maintain a "united front" and discuss it in private?</rhetorical question> The analogy fails at the point that she is your daughter, not your employer, but the need for police to not question each others' authority is similar to that of parents needing to not do so, in that those subject to that authority will tend to exploit the disagreement.

This is just me but if I am on my own property I will tell that officer or anyone else to either arrest me or get off of my property. I am on my property, I have nothing to prove. I will not show you my papers. You prove I do not belong there and then we can talk.

While I'm not fond of the apparent belligerence in this post, I don't know that it's intentional. (I'd think not, actually.) I'd agree with your position;

"Officer, my neighbor is an idiot. I don't need anyone's permission to carry on my own property. I'm sorry he or she wasted your time, but I'm sure there are much more important things you can be doing. Stay safe and have a great rest of the day."

I understand what you are saying, but the dispatcher that attempts to resolve a call without sending an Officer, will be fired so fast that it would be dizzying.

It is up to the responding Officer to do a complete investigation of the complaint.

It cannot ever be any other way. And you wouldn't want it any other way.

Guys have killed everybody in the house and then waited for the police to respond to the call, to "commit suicide by Cop". They sat down on the front steps, got bored and started pulling weeds while waiting. A bank robber did that to me, once. True story, it was 2001.

The VERY FIRST thing that a recruit is taught in the Academy is that things are NEVER how they may seem. Cops, by their very nature and training, are sceptical of everything.

The young Officer went home to his family after his shift. I'll bet he didn't give the incident a second thought after that. Nobody got hurt. We only have one side of the story and I am not going to ask for more of the story. I have nothing in this.

OP, from your account of what happened, you handled this well.

I am signal 88.

An officer must be dispatched to every call?

1. "Hello, 911? My neighbor is mowing his grass!" (at, say, noon on a Saturday)
2. "Hello, 911? My neighbor is out in her back yard in her bikini!" (on a summer afternoon)
3. "Hello, 911? There's a (fill in race of person) guy moving into the apartment next door to mine."

All legal acts. No crime even suggested. Why does an officer need to respond to these? (especially in light of Castle Rock v. Gonzalez saying that police had no duty to respond to a woman worried about her ex husband doing violence to her or her children?)

If the nosy neighbor called in that there was a man with a baseball bat playing ball in the yard, should an officer be dispatched to investigate?

How about a man with a shovel planting daisies in the yard... send an officer to investigate?

Of course, any of these weapons could and have been used to kill people, yet none of these actions warrants an investigation simply because a call was made.

Does anyone really think a dispatcher shouldn't be asking why these calls were being made and what exactly they were attempting to report?

They don't. Medical professionals use lots of referrence books and consults.

It has been discussed how these MWG calls are not as frequent as people feel. You really have no idea how many laws there are and how many cops remember and do not remember.

Um... I don't have the luxury of a reference book bumping down the road at 80 mph. I do have some idea of the laws in question. Sure, there are many, on varied topics, but as Scutter pointed out, it's probably not that important that a LEO know the law on how much water a toilet can flush or how high the grass has to be. What is important is that when a citizen points out that his actions are 100% legal, the officer needs to not have too much pride to admit error once he has (safely) checked it out (i.e. by having another officer do the research or having another cover the situation while he researches it himself. Some, and I'd venture to say many, even most, will do this, but the ones that refuse to admit error are the problems that need to be addressed. That badge doesn't make someone always right, it just makes them a LEO, a person who has chosen to serve the public in that capacity.

The answer is yes - an officer must be sent out to investigate. I know that is not how it would be if ATM or Hayseed were king but that is reality.

Please see my questions and hypotheticals above on this point. Admittedly, the bikini might be a mandatory response...

It does not have to be a longer post to be superior in virtues

Blasphemy! Sacrilege!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[eatsnopaste]

"Personally I like to build a bridge of civility and understanding between civilians and the police."

Good luck with that.

Throw in a little "Hope and Change" and maybe we got something here!

 

[Bunnykid68]

While I'm not fond of the apparent belligerence in this post, I don't know that it's intentional. (I'd think not, actually.) I'd agree with your position;

"Officer, my neighbor is an idiot. I don't need anyone's permission to carry on my own property. I'm sorry he or she wasted your time, but I'm sure there are much more important things you can be doing. Stay safe and have a great rest of the day."




Blessings,
Bill

Ok Bill you called me out of mom's basement. I would base my attitude on the one presented to me from the officer. I would respond to any request from the officer for ID and politely decline. If he chose to have a bad attitude I sure would not be ashamed to show my ass over principles and at that time become an asshat. Thats just me though

 

[eatsnopaste]

In closing, I am pretty pleased w the response I got. I know a lot of county and city cops and most of them are real good guys and gals who wear the badge well. I remember being a rookie. I didn't know s$&@ from shinola either. I bet he learned from this.

Hope next time he doesn't come back and shoot your dog...

 

[mkgr22]

Hopefully, one of the LEO's that are following this thread will correct me if Im wrong on this---

I don't know how the Ft. Wayne cruisers are equipped, but isn't it likely that the young officer had checked the address he was dispatched to on a laptop, before he arrived? If so, he may have had greyhound's name, and maybe driver's license photo. It seems to me he already knew greyhound has an LTCH, since he requested to see it rather than any other ID.

If he had this info, then he would also know that he wasn't dealing with a lowlife, as some have suggested he has been conditioned to. This guy has a Wyatt Earp complex, and I hope greyhound will follow up with a formal complaint to put the brakes on the guy's poor attitude. Hopefully, that would turn the guy around, make him a better cop.

 

[Landon500]

I've been outside doing yardwork since I got of work , wanted to be here sooner but could not. I was going to ask if I missed anything but I guess I did. I need two volunteers to help me out so I don't miss so much next time. THANK YOU

 

[trpsteelnuts]

mkgr22, that would be the only arguement the policeman could have had by saying he did not know if the guy mowing the yard was the actual homeowner and not some nut job. A very weak arguement at best, but you can still be nice in speaking with greyhound. His lack of concern with a visible weapon, again not knowing 100% who the person mowing was, is my biggest concern, but its his arse, not mine. Remember, most of use are truely looking out for the public's safety. If it was me in this situation, I would be glad that a coppers is checking, just in case I was that 1 in a million nut job running around. Again, prob not, but geuss who gets f'd up if we are wrong. Prob the innocent. If everyone doesn't want that and would like us to completely stay off their property, in this case, we would gladly do this. I wish someone would tell the powers that be so I wouldn't get sent there in the first place. I got donuts to eat. I don't want a police state as much as anyone else.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I think I will mow my lawn tomorrow with a 12G coach gun strapped to my back. **** on anyone that does not like it. Mind your own business.

 

[trpsteelnuts]

jmiller, i agree with you, some people look at stuff very strangly and i wish we had more control over what calls we as coppers needed to go to. BELIEVE ME we wouldn't go to at least half. I was sent to change the batteries in an old mans hearing aid once and his son was 5 minutes away. I can not even begin to say how THAT was criminally related, but I got sent anyway.We are taught not to dismiss anything as a threat, no matter how insignificant it may be. In this day and age you just can not chance it, BUT you can still be civil and nice in most cases. We appreciate those of you that respect our service, we really do. It is not often we hear that. Again, I took this gig to help our citizens, no one told us that alot of times we needed to have a cristal ball and be an expert in everything from constitutional law to medicine. Most of us try our best. Hopefully my ramblings made some type of sense.

 

[halfmileharry]

mkgr22, that would be the only arguement the policeman could have had by saying he did not know if the guy mowing the yard was the actual homeowner and not some nut job. A very weak arguement at best, but you can still be nice in speaking with greyhound. His lack of concern with a visible weapon, again not knowing 100% who the person mowing was, is my biggest concern, but its his arse, not mine. Remember, most of use are truely looking out for the public's safety. If it was me in this situation, I would be glad that a coppers is checking, just in case I was that 1 in a million nut job running around. Again, prob not, but geuss who gets f'd up if we are wrong. Prob the innocent. If everyone doesn't want that and would like us to completely stay off their property, in this case, we would gladly do this. I wish someone would tell the powers that be so I wouldn't get sent there in the first place. I got donuts to eat. I don't want a police state as much as anyone else.

Thanks for the chuckle.
I hate mowing grass and have a better chance of DWM (Drunk while Mowing) than I do getting hassled over my OC.
Maybe I should get one of the hats that holds two cans strapped to it with the long straws.
At that point I definitely don't want to be messed with as I hate warm beer.

 

[trpsteelnuts]

AJG357, people minding their own business would be GREAT!!!!

 

[Smokepole]

Hope next time he doesn't come back and shoot your dog...

Maybe your neighbors dog instead.