Odd sized supressor

[revsaxon]

in order for there to even be a glimmer of a hope to suppressing a muzzleloader w/out paperwork, i would almost garentee it would have to be perminantly attached.

I would do it the legal way, be it a form 1 or form 4. For 200$ its not worth the risk of being on the wrong side of that

Another thing to think about, what kind of projectile are you firing?
Round ball with no wad could cause baffle strikes
Round ball with wad/sabot, where does the wad/sabot go?

If it's permanently attached do you load it past the baffles?
^^^^

Was thinking round ball no wad. If I was building it myself I would try and do some kinda guide rails so the ball couldn't leave the channel, but still have ample cutouts for gas to bleed off. But again.. lack the machining skills to do that.

I was thinking some kinda of insert I could put it first to cover the baffles. Something like an really thin tube.

This all assumes you use a baffle type suppressor.

Would there a better option available?

Partially why I asked. If someone knows of a better way...

 

[IndyGunworks]

multi staged replaceable wipers?

 

[revsaxon]

Ok...

Since I can't find one that will work, and I really want one.... Looks like I need to form 1 it, and find a friendly machinist/SOT in the next few months.

Can anyone suggest someone for that?

 

[theweakerbrother]

Write a letter to the ATF and ask about the legality of suppressed muzzle loaders. My guess is that they are okay but if they can be used on modern firearms therein would lie your problems.

 

[revsaxon]

Write a letter to the ATF and ask about the legality of suppressed muzzle loaders. My guess is that they are okay but if they can be used on modern firearms therein would lie your problems.

Like I said, not worth the risk. They issue such contradictory rullings...

Im just going to pay the tax and go from there. $200 < $100,000 afterall

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

They make suppressed pellet guns you can buy at Cabelas or Bass Pro Shops, I would think this would fall under the same classification.

They are allowed because they are integrated into the barrel. If you remove the suppressor from the pellet gun you have an illegal suppressor.

Write a letter to the ATF and ask about the legality of suppressed muzzle loaders. My guess is that they are okay but if they can be used on modern firearms therein would lie your problems.

From TITLE 18 § 921:

(3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.


Antique firearms defined:

(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

And the definition of a silencer is:

(24) The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

So a silencer is a device that diminishes the report of a firearm. A muzzleloader is not a firearm. Therefore I would think it would be OK as long as the suppressor is integrated with the barrel. As soon as you remove it from the barrel you have an illegal suppressor.

Herein are the problems I see - how do you load the powder without dumping powder into the suppressor baffles thereby increasing pressure inside the suppressor? How do you prevent back pressure that could cause catastophic failure of the barrel? Solve these problems and you get a guest star role on sons of guns.

 

[revsaxon]

They are allowed because they are integrated into the barrel. If you remove the suppressor from the pellet gun you have an illegal suppressor.



I would think it would be OK as long as the suppressor is integrated with the barrel. As soon as you remove it from the barrel you have an illegal suppressor.

Herein are the problems I see - how do you load the powder without dumping powder into the suppressor baffles thereby increasing pressure inside the suppressor? How do you prevent back pressure that could cause catastophic failure of the barrel? Solve these problems and you get a guest star role on sons of guns.

I think the powder loading could be beaten in one of two ways. Either by simply making the supressor removable and therefore just remove it between shots, or by making the hole slightly oversized, thereby allowing for a barrier to be inserted between the baffles and your powder. Could even be as simple as a piece of paper.

As to the back pressure... maybe add some small ports at regular intervals along the barrel to let some of the pressure escape? You would get dirty as hell (well, dirty faster than normal) firing it, but might prevent catastrophic failure. Failing that idea maybe use a lighter load. Then even if you did get back pressure it wouldn't be as large of a deal. Admittedly im talking out of an organ I sit on with both those ideas, but from the "I know nothing of the engineering behind it" standpoint it seems solid.

 

[DownByTheTracks]

Herein are the problems I see - how do you load the powder without dumping powder into the suppressor baffles thereby increasing pressure inside the suppressor? How do you prevent back pressure that could cause catastophic failure of the barrel? Solve these problems and you get a guest star role on sons of guns.

What about a couple of holes in the barrel that would dump gas into a shroud??

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

I think the powder loading could be beaten in one of two ways. Either by simply making the supressor removable and therefore just remove it between shots, or by making the hole slightly oversized, thereby allowing for a barrier to be inserted between the baffles and your powder. Could even be as simple as a piece of paper.

As to the back pressure... maybe add some small ports at regular intervals along the barrel to let some of the pressure escape? You would get dirty as hell (well, dirty faster than normal) firing it, but might prevent catastrophic failure. Failing that idea maybe use a lighter load. Then even if you did get back pressure it wouldn't be as large of a deal. Admittedly im talking out of an organ I sit on with both those ideas, but from the "I know nothing of the engineering behind it" standpoint it seems solid.

Can't make it removable. As soon as you do it's an illegal suppressor.

The porting would let gas escape thereby slowing the round and reducing the effectiveness of the suppressor.

What about a couple of holes in the barrel that would dump gas into a shroud??

You could port it, but it's not looking much like a musket anymore.

 

[revsaxon]

Can't make it removable. As soon as you do it's an illegal suppressor.

Ok, then the large hole it is

The porting would let gas escape thereby slowing the round and reducing the effectiveness of the suppressor.


You could port it, but it's not looking much like a musket anymore.

Heh. Im talking about adding a supressor to a musket. Not sure looks really factor in anymore

 

[DownByTheTracks]

Overbore the the baffles large enough to insert a powder funnel through the baffles to the barrel.

 

[sp3worker]

I think the powder loading could be beaten in one of two ways. Either by simply making the supressor removable and therefore just remove it between shots, or by making the hole slightly oversized, thereby allowing for a barrier to be inserted between the baffles and your powder. Could even be as simple as a piece of paper.

How about using pelletized powder- Triple 7 pellets???

 

[ctbreitwieser]

I was going through the old threads on here and wanted to bump this to see if anything ever came out of this. This very interesting.

 

[revsaxon]

Never managed to find a solution and ended up going in a different direction. I still think what I wanted to do was possible, I just lacked the machining skills to try my various plans

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Never managed to find a solution and ended up going in a different direction. I still think what I wanted to do was possible, I just lacked the machining skills to try my various plans

Thats a shame. I would have loved to see the outcome. I was just thinking about how/if one could suppress a muzzleloader when I found this thread.

 

[amafrank]

I've seen a suppressed muzzleloader and it worked ok. It did collect a lot of crap and the black powder residue was pretty hard on the baffles. It reduced the smoke cloud quite a bit and a bit of research will show that Hiram Maxim built a smoke reducing device for his machinegun back in the 1880's. It had an effect of reducing the sound as well and was pretty effective according to the info I've seen.
In any case its no big deal to build a can for testing. You want to pay for time and material I'll design and build a can for your 69 cal muzzleloader. The bore of the suppressor will have to be pretty large to avoid baffle strikes. As others noted round balls don't fly straight and the patch or wad is a problem too. A minie ball or other bullet of that type will work better. Back pressure isn't an issue with a black powder weapon. Black powder burn rates don't change with varying pressure like smokeless does. The baffles can be made in a manner that will allow loading with the can in place on the rifle (musket).
In my own opinion making a can for a muzzle loader is a neat idea but not worth doing unless you've to the machinery, the time and the license or form 1 to do it.
Your choice of course.

Frank

 

[revsaxon]

You want to pay for time and material I'll design and build a can for your 69 cal muzzleloader.

Any idea what this might run me?

 

[amafrank]

Without looking the gun over and seeing where things start I can't really give you an idea of cost. My guess is a suppressor about 2" in dia and about 10" long would be a good start. The barrel on the rifle will need to be threaded and I'm guessing its a smoothbore?
Probably looking at a few hours for design and drawing up prints to build parts from. A few hours to make the parts from aluminum, maybe a steel blast baffle to handle the debris a little better, and somewhere between $20-75 for material depending on what is being used.

Frank