serpicostraight
Shooter
- Aug 14, 2009
- 1,951
- 36
cops shoot people for holding garden hose nozzles and golf clubs but when a man steps up to defend his pregnant wife the nancy boys yell assault. they handing out estrogen at the academy now?
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Off Duty Chicago LEO pulls gun on pregnant woman
- Thread starter buckstopshere
- Start date
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It will most likely take the inside of a FEMA camp. I worry more about LEOs complying with martial law than our soldiers.
serpicostraight
Shooter
- Aug 14, 2009
- 1,951
- 36
not a doubt in my mind. you ever seen a cop refuse to do what he was told?
I was going to comment, but decided not. I'll leave ya all with this to think about,
The Kendall County Sheriff's Department said in a statement the incident is under an internal investigation to determine if the deputy’s actions "are consistent with the rules and regulations of the Sheriff’s Office."
The Kendall County Sheriff's Department said in a statement the incident is under an internal investigation to determine if the deputy’s actions "are consistent with the rules and regulations of the Sheriff’s Office."
EvilBlackGun
Master
Who knows?
Does an off duty plain-clothes deputy have better rights than any civilian? We'll see, won't we? But the lead-in headline is interesting, "Source: Off-Duty Deputy Accused of Pulling Gun on Pregnant Couple | NBC Chicago" in that the O-D Deputy is accused, and not the hubby.
Does an off duty plain-clothes deputy have better rights than any civilian? We'll see, won't we? But the lead-in headline is interesting, "Source: Off-Duty Deputy Accused of Pulling Gun on Pregnant Couple | NBC Chicago" in that the O-D Deputy is accused, and not the hubby.
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I'll be very surprised if this ends up with the cop getting any kind of reprimand whatsoever. Probably the best outcome at this point will be they drop the whole thing.
On another note, given that there are a good number of people carrying concealed in this state, I wonder if cops here are less likely to instigate a conflict for something as juvenile as too many items in the fast checkout lane.
If I had left my pregnant wife in the checkout line and come back to find some guy berating her I would have had a hard time convincing myself to not go for his blindside and knock him out. If it were bad enough, (none of us actually know to what extent the cop was berating) I probably would have been the first to defuse the situation by doing exactly as the cop did and pull a gun.
On another note, given that there are a good number of people carrying concealed in this state, I wonder if cops here are less likely to instigate a conflict for something as juvenile as too many items in the fast checkout lane.
If I had left my pregnant wife in the checkout line and come back to find some guy berating her I would have had a hard time convincing myself to not go for his blindside and knock him out. If it were bad enough, (none of us actually know to what extent the cop was berating) I probably would have been the first to defuse the situation by doing exactly as the cop did and pull a gun.
If you'd seriously pull a gun on someone for yelling at your wife, you really need to reconsider whether you should carry or not. That's not the kind of comment that gives much reason to believe somebody is mature enough to be carrying a firearm.
1) Assault is not a crime in Indiana. This took place in IL. Don't know, don't care if they have assault there, but it is often defined in terms such as "placing someone in fear of imminent attack"
2) Battery does not have a force threshold.
3) Battery is, "knowingly or intentionally touching a person in a rude, insolent or angry manner."
4) Bad Breath is not battery. There must be a touching or some sort, by the person or at least something else the person put in motion.
Carry on.
HB
2) Battery does not have a force threshold.
3) Battery is, "knowingly or intentionally touching a person in a rude, insolent or angry manner."
4) Bad Breath is not battery. There must be a touching or some sort, by the person or at least something else the person put in motion.
Carry on.
HB
Timjoebillybob
Grandmaster
- Feb 27, 2009
- 9,421
- 149
And I'm sure they have an attorney that could subpoena it. If not for the criminal case, for the civil one that I'm sure is in the works. Also couldn't the station of gotten it under FOIA? Not sure about that one though if there is an ongoing investigation.
See the Canton PD video, it was released long before the guy went to trial.
I've been pushed before, although not while CCing. And I never thought my life was in danger. But I could definitely see how it could happen. What was the persons demeanor like? What did he say? How big is he compared to the person he shoved? For instance I'm 5'6
", if a guy came up to me that was 6'6" and outweighed me by double, and stated he was going to stomp my head into the ground for saying something to his wife and then shoved me?
See above, I can almost guarantee that there are instances where you might be in fear of your life or SBI in some cases of being shoved.
ETA I'm sure you've seen the video of the guy getting "shoved" by the two JBTs, right into a wall where he received brain damage and was in a coma? Or the girl that was "shoved" from behind by the cop, right into a brick wall? Is that something you might pull a gun over being shoved? That is if you were still able to.....
Where did he attempt to enforce store policy? He told the lady his opinion of her disregard for said policy. Did he ever say she couldn't do it? That she had to leave? If so I missed it in the video and the article. The lady states he was rude and asked her if she knew how to count, and that he said she was holding up the entire store.
Hell I might of said the same thing, she had too many items(I'm assuming that is, I would like to know exactly how many. 1 item over or 50?) and I'm guessing was waiting for her husband at the checkout because they forgot to get eggs.
Have I ever gone into an express lane with more items than I'm supposed to? Yep but very very infrequently, ie 21-22 items in a 20 item checkout lane when there were several open with no customers. Have I ever made a line wait because I or my wife forgot an item? Nope, I've realized I forgot something when the cashier was ringing us up and the store was busy. I told my wife to finish checking out and start loading the car up and I would meet her outside. It's taken 10-15 minutes standing in line for that one item when I could of just held up the line, but it was my fault why should others have to pay for it?
Trust me I'm not one to always defend the police, if it comes out that this story is exactly as they say. I'll be the first to castigate the JBT. But imagine what the driver would say about this traffic stop?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-LnyNgXIx8
Now imagine what the difference is between what the driver would probably say, compared to what the video actually shows.
Also look at these two videos and see how the encounters could of been spun. FF to 5:50 on the first one to see the part I'm talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njb6X-nmW2M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgR0xOdAuoU&feature=related
Or even this one. I could imagine some of the screams about this one. Drunk cop just playing around not doing his job.... Why wasn't this cop out busting criminals.... Some JBT, Fing around blocking people on the street.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIpb6fZThGU
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IndyBeerman
Was a real life Beerman.....
just because she's pregnant doesn't change the fact she had too many items in the express lane. those people **** me off.
If she was so pregnant as to be that uncomfortable, then she should have sent her husband alone. That was my job for about 5 of the 8.5 months my wife had a bun in the oven.
24 hours/day. 7 days/ week. I did that to her. So I became the gopher.
First of all if you're getting PO'd about 1 or 2 items over a 20 item limit, and it involved a judge, I assure you that he would have anger management courses in store for you.
Life is too short to get all amp'd and upset as trivial as that is, and that includes me, Betty the Bartender, Joe Plumber down the street and the LEO who's involved in this case.
we are losing liberty's all the time ......when did we lose the ability to defend are selfs and are family .....just because that person is a off duty police officer he lost that right .......if what happen is true how can you justify it are you a
there a lot of LEO i respect greatly here on this site ...... but i have no respect for anyone who defends bad actions from bad police ........its that same blind believe that we as humans repeat time and time again in history .when we the people give all the power to the police in a whole and blindly do and obey and close there eyes or turn there head to what we know is unjust .....we are failed to repeat it .......
In Germany people thought they were doing the right thing turning in Jews to the police after all it was the law and they were good citizen right. Just like all the camp here in America for all American Japanese it was the law and the right thing to do and report to the police Japanese American among us to go to camps....
If what happen is true this man had the right to defend her ......some men are afriad to be real men some men are afraid to do what right ...no matter the cost ....some men would not lay down there life for a love one of defend them out of fear .........
Let me ask you this what would you do if you came up to a store line seen a man in your wife of child face screaming and pointing there finger in there face show all the signs of doing bodly harm to them you push that person away....he pulls a gun then tell you he's a off duty police officer he's friend on the department show up and arrest you for assualt ......this can happen to anyone here we have a right to self defence the day we give it up hello cattle train or camp..........
Again if what this man said did happen i salute
him for being a man and defending his wife and unborn child..................
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Well, the officer is also a person, who also has rights. It goes back to the whole sticks and stones thing. I agree that no official LEO response would be needed, unless an agent of the store requested assistance with a person refusing to leave. However, the LEO, or any civilian, is allowed to say anything they want, absent threats. Of course the target of those comments can say things back as well. However, a physical response had best be justifiable, the whole 'sticks and stones' thing. Turning verbal spats into physical conflicts totally changes the game. I don't know exactly who was in the right or wrong here, because a lot depends on the officers choice of words, loudness, body language, etc.. However, if the LEO wanted to call her out, he has that right. If for whatever reason he wanted to include the fact he was employed as an LEO, I don't see how he can't do that as well.
Cops are always enforcing store policy by proxy. Many store policies get enforced for one reason and one reason alone: The cops show up. Why? Because a person flat out refuses to obey store policy that they leave after violating some other store policy. Granted, refusing the obey an agents request to leave the property becomes criminal, that part of the trespass statue has more to do with the enforcement of store policies than anything else in these sorts of situations. All these calls have one thing in common: Violations of store policy. Not stealing, not beating someone else....they break a store policy, get asked to leave, they don't, cops get called for a trespasser. The cops are enforcing private retail store policy by proxy.
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I said, "if it were bad enough" because I had a thought someone would cry about that comment. Why the heck do you think I carry a gun? Here are a few things for you to think about if an unknown person is behaving irrationally and aggressively toward your wife or any other loved one. You don't know a thing about the guy except he is being irrational. There are many ways he could be a very dangerous person. Even beyond things like being a trained fighter or the fact he too could be carrying a gun. I don't believe in fair fights and if some guy is acting in an aggressive way toward my wife, you d*** well better believe I'm going to have my gun out before he has his out.
If he were calmly mentioning in passing to my wife that she must have not seen the 20 items or less sign then obviously I'm not pulling a gun. What a disrespectful post. I don't appreciate it.
Timjoebillybob
Grandmaster
- Feb 27, 2009
- 9,421
- 149
Who knows how many items they were over (or even if they were)? It could of been 1, it could of been 10, it could even of been 101. It could even be that they were at or under the limit. And do you honestly think a judge would sentence someone to anger management courses, if some rude person in front of you were over the limit and you made a comment about it, and the persons boyfriend/husband/brother or multiples thereof, took offense and decided to stomp a mud hole in your behind?
And I agree that life is to short to get all amp'd up over a trivial thing like this, but I do get annoyed at times. Life is also to short to get all amp'd up over someone getting annoyed that you are being rude and calling you out for it.
we are losing liberty's all the time ......when did we lose the ability to defend are selfs and are family .....just because that person is a off duty police officer he lost that right .......if what happen is true how can you justify it are you a
If what happen is true this man had the right to defend her ......some men are afriad to be real men some men are afraid to do what right ...no matter the cost ....some men would not lay down there life for a love one of defend them out of fear .........
Let me ask you this what would you do if you came up to a store line seen a man in your wife of child face screaming and pointing there finger in there face show all the signs of doing bodly harm to them you push that person away....he pulls a gun then tell you he's a off duty police officer he's friend on the department so up and arrest you for assualt ......this can happen to anyone here we have a right to self defence the day we give it up hello cattle train or camp..........
Again if what this man said did happen i salute
Where did I ever say I would try to justify it if it was true? Read my post, I stated I would be the first to castigate the LEO if it was true. Notice one word in particular both of used repeatedly, IF.
The guy never stated that he felt his wife was threatened, just that she appeared upset. And neither of them said he has his finger in her face. Also define yelling, some people talk louder than others, some get a bit louder when irate or annoyed. And some people think that anyone who says anything negative about their spouse is yelling.
He said the guy took a "threatening step", who knows. It could be that they finally had all their stuff off of the spot where you put your crap to be scanned. And he simply took a step forward to put his crap up there.
We only have one side of the story. No witness statements or video. We don't know what actually happened.
HANDS DOWN, the Officer, as a civilian living in SOCIETY, was OUT OF LINE. PERIOD.
He then uses a FIREARM to enforce his frustration at the woman.
His employment as an Officer was not in the role until he had realized he had DONE WRONG.
End of story. Husband is acquitted, officer is disciplined or fired for causing an incident that was not needed. What a tool.
And to add: the officer clearly demonstrated his lack of ability to function in normal society with this episode. How can he then be counted upon to perform his duties?
He then uses a FIREARM to enforce his frustration at the woman.
His employment as an Officer was not in the role until he had realized he had DONE WRONG.
End of story. Husband is acquitted, officer is disciplined or fired for causing an incident that was not needed. What a tool.
And to add: the officer clearly demonstrated his lack of ability to function in normal society with this episode. How can he then be counted upon to perform his duties?
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Which didn't happen here.
Cops weren't called; lady wasn't trespassing because she wasn't asked to leave and she didn't refuse to leave.
I say again, it is not the function of the police to enforce store policy.
Removing a trespasser and/or placing said trespasser under arrest IS a police function.
The officer has no more right or responsibility to confront this woman about her actions than any other citizen does. Therefore, the cop started the confrontation and bears partial responsibility for the shove he "suffered."
BTW, I believe it is Walmart policy to allow people with more than the maximum allowed items to be served in the express lanes. If that is the case, unless they have a policy that calls for verbal abuse of those customers, the officer was specifically NOT enforcing store policy.
You do know that there was other people in the store who said the off duty officer pointed his finger in her face and back up this mans story ........you do know walmart has policies on there security videos .......you do know that the department IA and walmart are the only ones who have a copy........you do know that that this guy lawyer can be told by court not to release this video to the public..........
common sence can be applied here to see the truth
the truth in the long run will come out .....the officer and the police department statement don't make sense and if it don't make sense it's probably not true......... no matter how you slice it that officer actions were not with department policy............
all these two civilian have is there side of the story ......until there day in court ....sorry in my opinion i feel you are to quick to take the officer side
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OK, how about "Provocation?"
IC 35-42-2-3
Provocation
Sec. 3. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally engages in conduct that is likely to provoke a reasonable man to commit battery commits provocation, a Class C infraction.
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Timjoebillybob
Grandmaster
- Feb 27, 2009
- 9,421
- 149
Do you have any links to these witnesses who back up their side? I see nothing in the video or story that state anything like that. And yes I do know walmart has policies regarding their security video. Do you have any cites that only walmart and IA have copies? And yes I know a judge can issue a gag order.
Only police statement I have saw was that it was under investigation. How is that inconsistent? No statements by the officer involved that I have seen. Any cites for that? The dept has a policy against rudeness by an off duty, non uniformed officer? Again any cites?
I am not taking any sides. I do not have anywhere enough info about this to take a side.
I think to many people are too quick to take the side of the husband and wife with nothing to go on other than their say. I'm guessing it's because for some of those people, the police can do no right.
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