Officer Uses City Property as Weapon

[steveh_131]

In this instance likely yes, THe officer approaching was one one facing the imminent threat so the officer to the rear was clear to stop the threat, doing so from behind was the safest way, gun or car. However, do to the proximity of the houses, firing on him was a no-go. Bad backdrop. If lethal force is warranted, it matters little on method.

Yes, I think I agree with you and with phylodog on this.

 

[Fourtrax]

Awesome!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Forgive me, if a officer is walking up from each direction wouldn't you be concerned you might get shot?

I seriously don't understand, in that case there were cops coming from 3 directions, if the cop that is coming from the car the video is shot from moves to the right and then closes in there they would all have clear backstops and there would be no chance of blue on blue.

I guess I would be worried I would end up catching a bullet.

I did not mean to second guess, just don't understand.

There's nothing wrong with questions about why things happen the way they do or learning from them when things go wrong. It was more the "do they just love the thought of cross fire or what" that I objected to, along with the idea that they can just line up.

When you're setting up a perimeter, someone is down range. When you converge on the suspect, someone is going to be down range. Real world tactics always have a trade off. Is the guy who's down the street going to loop around and join the "line" or is he going to just sit it out? This is where training and weapons discipline come into play. I've converged on a suspect with multiple officers with a weapon out or a combination of lethal/less-lethal in hand. Muzzle awareness and coordination is a must to do it as safely as possible, but it can be done.

Let's say you've got a wounded but not out suspect who's armed with a rifle and one officer in close proximity. Which is safer?

A) A delayed response as officers wait for everyone to get into position. Officers approach in one cluster.

B) Multiple officers converging from multiple angles immediately.

Which is harder to target? If the suspect does begin to fire, which is easier for him to transition and hit multiple targets? Which is more overwhelming and difficult to cope with mentally?

It is very much a trade off. We get that. Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils, do it on the fly, and hope you made the right call.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

A little late here, but this is why I ALWAYS try to outrun the cops...

...unless I am on foot.

 

[Woobie]

It was in the video. If you look, there is a patrol car on the opposite end of the street from the car the video is shot from. The perp shoots in that direction.

 

[ModernGunner]

Have zero issues with the actions of the LEO driving that car.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

Have zero issues with the actions of the LEO driving that car.

I concur, found the difference between the two officer's action's very funny from the liveleak video.

I try not to laugh at human suffering, but this caught my funny bone.

My interpretation, stand down, stand down he has rifle and shooting it! Other officer, this is getting out of hand and unsafe, skinny pedal, skinny pedal!

They both had the same intention of looking out for other people and had a problem to solve. One came up with a faster solution than the other.

 

[ModernGunner]

I concur, found the difference between the two officer's action's very funny from the liveleak video.

I try not to laugh at human suffering, but this caught my funny bone.

My interpretation, stand down, stand down he has rifle and shooting it! Other officer, this is getting out of hand and unsafe, skinny pedal, skinny pedal!

They both had the same intention of looking out for other people and had a problem to solve. One came up with a faster solution than the other.

Just a slightly different perspective, but one Officer chose to 'monitor' a continually degrading scenario, the other Officer Officer came up with a solution to END the scenario.

At what point did the first LEO intend to take some decisive action? When the lunatic finally shot someone?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Just a slightly different perspective, but one Officer chose to 'monitor' a continually degrading scenario, the other Officer Officer came up with a solution to END the scenario.

At what point did the first LEO intend to take some decisive action? When the lunatic finally shot someone?

As we sat safely in our office drinking coffee and wishing there was a doughnut shop open downtown, we MMQ'd the guy and came up with the same question. Why is he still in the car, does he have a plan?

Then we watched this:

LANGUAGE WARNING

[video=youtube;hooKVstzbz0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hooKVstzbz0[/video]

Note similarities. Compare.

 

[Nacho Man]

Lol, they should call it the Tony Stewart Technique/Maneuver.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

Just a slightly different perspective, but one Officer chose to 'monitor' a continually degrading scenario, the other Officer Officer came up with a solution to END the scenario.

At what point did the first LEO intend to take some decisive action? When the lunatic finally shot someone?

I'm not saying what he did was wrong, or right, but the way it went down caught my fancy and I laughed out loud. The timing is what got me. Based on the liveleak video.

This played out through a few jurisdictions so communications probably were bad.

 

[ghuns]

i was just coming on here to post about this. i laughed so dang hard at this and i dont even know why.

I concur, found the difference between the two officer's action's very funny from the liveleak video.

I try not to laugh at human suffering, but this caught my funny bone.

Glad I was not the only one. I almost felt bad.

There's a certain cartoonlike quality to the situation. Especially the dashcam from the officer who says, screw this, and goes to ramming speed.

 

[Cameramonkey]

If an officer had simply shot him in the back as he walked, would you call it a 'good shoot'?

In this instance likely yes, THe officer approaching was one one facing the imminent threat so the officer to the rear was clear to stop the threat, doing so from behind was the safest way, gun or car. However, do to the proximity of the houses, firing on him was a no-go. Bad backdrop. If lethal force is warranted, it matters little on method.

I had a nice conversation with a retired cop this am at the car dealership while waiting for my ride to the office this AM. According to him it wasnt a good stop because his back was to the officer and he wasnt a threat. He had to turn around first for it to be a good shoot/plow.
Even though, I pointed out, He stole the rifle and was shooting it, it didnt matter to this nice old man. I poitely pointed out that there are many ACTIVE duty officers that disagree with his analysis and we moved on to discussions about minimum wage, etc.

 

[ghuns]

According to him it wasnt a good stop because his back was to the officer and he wasnt a threat. He had to turn around first for it to be a good shoot/plow.

Was his name Wyatt Earp?

Shoulda told him, this ain't Tombstone grandpa.

I you have to engage in a deadly force type encounter, fight to win. Cheat if you have to.

 

[steveh_131]

I had a nice conversation with a retired cop this am at the car dealership while waiting for my ride to the office this AM. According to him it wasnt a good stop because his back was to the officer and he wasnt a threat. He had to turn around first for it to be a good shoot/plow.
Even though, I pointed out, He stole the rifle and was shooting it, it didnt matter to this nice old man. I poitely pointed out that there are many ACTIVE duty officers that disagree with his analysis and we moved on to discussions about minimum wage, etc.

While I think the officers in this thread have made a convincing case, I can also see where this gentleman is coming from. I don't know that I could fault an officer for either method, in this instance.

 

[Cameramonkey]

While I think the officers in this thread have made a convincing case, I can also see where this gentleman is coming from. I don't know that I could fault an officer for either method, in this instance.

I have a hard time with his logic. So its not a good hit because the perp wasnt a threat to HIM? Its only good if one of the officers he is facing takes the shot? By his logic, that means that when a perp points a gun at YOU, officers arriving behind the perp have to wait for him to shoot you or turn around before they can open fire. I call bull .

 

[steveh_131]

I have a hard time with his logic. So its not a good hit because the perp wasnt a threat to HIM? Its only good if one of the officers he is facing takes the shot? By his logic, that means that when a perp points a gun at YOU, officers arriving behind the perp have to wait for him to shoot you or turn around before they can open fire. I call bull .

Well, I'm still fuzzy on the facts of this one. The sources I'm reading say that the only shot he fired was in the air. I didn't see in the video where he shot at a cop or pointed the gun at one.

Either way, I wouldn't expect an officer to face off with this guy, western-style. But I also won't fault one who prefers more restraint than was shown.

 

[Alamo]

This wasn't CJ Grisham more-or-less legally "open-carrying" his rifle down the street to make a political point. It seems it was already known this guy had committed earlier felonies and was suicidal (which means he doesn't really give a s*** about anyone else, just his own problems), and whether he fired the gun randomly in the air (which is stupid-dangerous all by itself) or at a cop and missed, he needed to be put out of action immediately. With that recent history, I don't see any justification for waiting him to actually point/shoot a gun directly at a cop or anyone else before putting him down forcefully, and that included deadly force.

 

[SMiller]

The guy would have ended up pointing the rifle at the cops who would have unloaded on him killing him dead, he gets to live, spent two days in the hospital, some time in jail at which point he will be able to enjoy the rest of his life. He should be thankful...

 

[Woobie]

Reply Reply With Quote ​

Send PM You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BehindBlueI's again.






Any Leroy Jenkins reference comes with a requirement to rep.