Oh No...Another .358 thread ...?

[kludge]

Frank, that's interesting. I use the Redding dies and neck up in two steps (tapered expanders included in the die set) to 30 then 35 caliber, anneal, trim, turn, chamfer, and load.

In the case of the WSM I would still be doing all those steps, in maybe a slightly different order. Assuming starting with .325 WSM brass... remove the expander and push the shoulder back, trim, put the expander back in and neck up (there will be just a bit of the original neck left), trim again, anneal, turn, chamfer.

If they are not fireforming and still getting a nice shoulder, then good for them, but I wouldn't think the load development would be "done" until after the brass has been fired and resized once.

I could have ordered dies and reamer to eliminate the turning, but you only have to do it once and it's no big deal. And I didn't have to wait 16 weeks for custom dies Sinclair's had them in stock.

I have split exactly zero necks out of 50 with new Winchester .25 WSSM brass. Lee Lube and go slow. After three loadings, still no splits. I think I will anneal again before the fourth loading.

I considered doing a 1.8" WSM, but this rifle has no more recoil than a .30-06 with my 200gr load and a 1.8" at 2900fps would increase the recoil significantly. Besides it's already all the performance I can ever foresee needing in Indiana. I guess I might rechamber if someday I get into elk hunting (not at all likely), but there are a lot of other calibers I would choose before a 1.8" .358 WSM... like the .338/.280 or a 1.8" .338 WSM, or the 7mm WSM barrel I already have.

If I do another deer rifle for my son it's either be .357 Maximum or another wildcat I've already designed on paper somewhere between the .358 Hoosier and the .358 WSSM... however, since I already have access to the reamer, gauges and dies for the WSSM, it would be stupid to do that second wildcat. Instead I'll probably work up a .35 Rem duplicate load in the WSSM for him and use the 200gr FTX bullets.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[SKRSR]

I'm with Kludge for the most part.

Some great info here and Ill agree with Kludge on a few things I feel that do come to light for these wildcats and their use and please, accept it as my only.

The TCs are great rifles and versatile but Ill take a bolt action. There isnt any question down the road about if and or when a round may damage the action and a HIGH priority on my 350JR was that it be in a 700 Rem and had lots to do with the direction I went. I flat trust a bolt more and Im so used to adjusting the trigger to what I want with one, I cannot imagine using anything else long term.

The other subject is the one of RECOIL

We frankly dont shoot these rifles a LOT but let me tell ya what, FOR WHITETAIL the recoil of loads faster than the 358 WSSM and my 350JR would just flat not be worth what LITTLE trajectory gain one would have going bigger. IMHO anyway.

I first loaded the 225s since ballistics give them the nod for energy at longer ranges but.....the energy of the 180 and 200 pills is WAY more than "adequate" out to any range (I dont care how far you shoot here) one would get shots here in IN. Loaded full boat, the 225s flat BEAT YOU and pushing the lighter ones to get MAYBE 2 inches flatter trajectory (by my trajectory checks) at 300 yards than what the 358WSSM and 350JR get by somehow getting the additonal 200 fps required to GET it....would ALSO have more recoil.

Two inches of gain at 300 yards is less than MOA. This ol bird would never knew he had it going from one round to the other EXCEPT FOR the recoil.

HUNTING....one does not notice the recoil, Granted BUT......we DO shoot our rifles MORE sighting in, testing loads, plinking around just using them in the summer for whatever reason than what we will ever do deer hunting and RECOIL will raise its ugly head in these situations. FOR ME.........this is supposed to be FUN!

Shooting at winamac on a lead sled, a few guys watched me zing a few test loads and watched that 24lb lead sled (against my shoulder) bounce about 1.5 inches at each shot. No one wanted to shoot it even though I offered.

You are SMART to find one to shoot a few times as you suggested. When I first got the 350JR brass to the 1x fired stag, I was a little disappointed that I "had lost a couple grains of capacity" from the "expected" results.

After shooting it, and not YET reaching max loads till I go with some faster powder (but suspect Im close) I AM NO LONGER disappointed. I havent went that route yet BECAUSE I do NOT load the 350JR to max loads for whitetail. I flat dont need it for 250 yard ranges. At the short 80 yards on the buck I shot opening day , even the light 180 gr Speer, non max charge, entered the chest and ended up in the opposite ham. Had I GOTTEN the "lost" capacity.......I WOULD NOT HAVE USED IT anyway.

To quote Kludge

it's already all the performance I can ever foresee needing in Indiana

Although I'd be open to a discussion if more was even needed for Elk since the 358 Win seems more than capable. With "less than max" loads and a 225 Nosler over a ton of energy remains at 250 yards. NOT an elk hunter for many years but......I have thoughts that this may be adequate? ( just jabbing ya a little Kludge. The 350JR might be just doing that in the next two years though.)

Yes, one can go heavier barrel, one can add a brake.....etc. All steps to tame recoil is just more money spent for me at this stage of my life and I have to set back and "justify" the cost vs the gain and then decide if that gain is warranted. Don't know about everyone else, but I tend to "over think" things and get some hair brained notion that " I need all I can get". Then reality (common sense) sets in. Praise the Lord for THAT!

My buddy with his rifle in the same round shot a buck and two does on the opener out to 130 or so. Using the 220 grain speer (not loaded to max) the furthest went 20 yards. No bullets recovered.

MORE than what these rounds supply I cannot imagine "needing" in BOTH trajectory and energy.

The neck expansion thing has great info online on how to do it and most are doing so successfully but it just was another step I didnt want to deal with and is another reason I went with a parent round already a 358 bore. Neck expansion is not rocket science, most can do it, it works great......I just didnt want to do it if not mandatory. (Besides I wanted to make my own round. Whatever excuses I could come up with I stuck with *grin*)

All of them work dandy. All of them have their pluses and minuses. Pick one........you'll love it!

I LOVE the 350JR but IF I didnt have it I would have went with the set back shoulder and shorter 358 Win (the 358 Hoosier?.....I CANT KEEP TRACK! LOL). That is basically the same thing I did with the 350 Rem mag for the 350JR.

Simple is complicated enough for me these days.

AS ALWAYS..........NO toes were intentionally stepped on in this post. If I have done so UNintentionally......my apologies.



GodBless
Steve

 

[kludge]

To quote Kludge Although I'd be open to a discussion if more was even needed for Elk since the 358 Win seems more than capable. With "less than max" loads and a 225 Nosler over a ton of energy remains at 250 yards. NOT an elk hunter for many years but......I have thoughts that this may be adequate? ( just jabbing ya a little Kludge. The 350JR might be just doing that in the next two years though.)

No offense taken at all... this is just a friendly campfire discussion.

My personal opinion is that the WSSM is a 300 yard deer cartridge -- if you're good enough AND you know the range of the deer AND you have confimred at the range what the ballistic calculator says on paper.

I also believe that the WSSM is a 250 yard elk cartridge.

But if *I* were elk hunting I would want something a little flatter shooting and that would extend that range somewhat... hence the .338/280 or the .338-06 which can be handloaded with sleek 225gr bullets an maintain roughly 2000fps and 2000fpe out to 400 yards - and I feel there's no need to deal with the blast an recoil of a .338 Win Mag for elk. 400 yards is more range than I could probably ever use or have the skills to use, so dealing with big magnum recoil doesn't interest me at all.

Or I would just screw my 7mm WSM barrel back on.

If I lived in elk country and could take my time waiting for a 250 yard or less shot, then the WSSM would be totally adequate. But then I wouldn't need a wildcat, would I?

Then again, I imagine that 90% of elk taken are taken at under 250 yards.

The final decision for the .358 WSSM over my own wildcat design, aluded to in another post, was two-fold...

1) I wanted to use a bolt action and wanted a 200 yard cartridge. I would have been satisfied with .35 Rem ballisitcs and the 200gr FTX.
2) My buddy leases land with corn fields and he wanted as much range as allowed by law (1.625" at that time). He was paying for the reamer.

 

[SKRSR]

I'm too much a flatlander I think LOL

Good points on the ranges of elk hunts.
250 yards (or more) just seems like a LOOOOOOOOOOONG ways for this flatlander!

Sis and BILaw live near Dillon, MT.

The area they hunt they "expect" shots under 100 but they are kinda old LOL. Kinda figure Im safe wanting 250 or less.

Truth is........I just want to hunt elk with a round I created. Any excuse to do so works just fine.

Indiana had no clue as to the "Pandora's Box" they were opening with our regs!! GOD BLESS EM!



God Bless
Steve

 

[42769vette]

Just fyi i put a barnes 200gr ttsx in a does heart this morning and it does a fantastic job.

 

[redneckmedic]

Ha fooled y'all now I'm looking at a 358 Hoosier... using a savage??? Axis maybe as a host.

What's your thoughts...and what's my process to convert a 308 bolt?

 

[Hookeye]

If like a 110 just buy a WSSM bolt head and put it on.

 

[42769vette]

Ha fooled y'all now I'm looking at a 358 Hoosier... using a savage??? Axis maybe as a host.

What's your thoughts...and what's my process to convert a 308 bolt?[/QUOTE



To the best of my knowledge its just a slower version of the 358 wssm. I see no advantage, but I could be wrong

 

[dave29]

Ha fooled y'all now I'm looking at a 358 Hoosier... using a savage??? Axis maybe as a host.

What's your thoughts...and what's my process to convert a 308 bolt?

You can use the .308 bolt for the Hoosier. Just need a re-barrel.

 

[kludge]

Yup, look for a short action Savage, Stevens, or Marlin with a .473" bolt face (.243 Win, 7mm-08, 308 Win, and others)

No need to change the bolt face.

Of course any short action rifle will work as a donor, but you will need a gunsmith to barrel it for you. With a few tools you can rebarrel a Savage/Stevens or Marlin in your garage.

I don't know about the Axis.

 

[kludge]

To the best of my knowledge its just a slower version of the 358 wssm. I see no advantage, but I could be wrong

One advantage is better availability of donor rifles. Another is availability of brass. Not that WSSM brass is that hard to find.

Hint: don't use Federal .308 brass (soft heads) or military brass (too thick).

 

[Hookeye]

Guys who redo 110's also do Axis.
Unfortunately the Axis is a long action only.
The recoil lug is in the stock, just pressed into a slot in the plastic, fits into hollow in receiver.

THE issue with the Axis (outside of only in long action) is the stock. It is a POS and needs a fair amount of work to make it usable. Last I checked nobody made an aftermarket one for it. I had to stiffen it, add cheekpiece. The recoil pad looks like crap, works, and is molded on a cheap plastic insert that snaps in and is secured by the rear swivel stud.

My Axis after work, using factory 80 gr ammo (.243 win) shot close to 1/2" at 100. I did the 2 dollar trigger job and that helped a bunch, but Rifle Basix makes an adj trigger for $70 or so.

Better I think to get a short action Stevens 200.

 

[kenny e]

358 hoosier

I figured i would give this round a try.Just finished loading some bullets useing my older lyman book.I'm useing a Marlin 336 chambered in 35 rem. and thats what was used as a test rifel for my book.So I took off 1.2" off the neck and am useing Imr 3031 powder with a 200gr.Hornady round nose bullet.Waiting on a little weather break to test these..